Engraving pattern transfer wax

[DFHicks]

 I am finally getting set up to try to learn how to engrave.  My next step is to make up the mixture to pick up the pattern from the paper.  I understand this is made of tallow and bee's wax.  This has probably been on a previous thread but what is the ratio of these two components?  My guess is that there is more tallow.
Also I am using  1/8" HSS bits 3" long and will set these in wooden handles with JB Weld.  How much of the bit should stick out & how much should be in the handle?  Maybe 1 1/2" each?  I did spring for the Lindsey sharpening templates and diamond stones set. 
Thanks

[Ron Scott]

If you are not concerned with the formulation, a tube of the original Chapstick works as well as anything you might concoct.  This  idea came from Mike Dubber who is one of the finest instructors of engraving in the country. 

[kutter]

My original tin of engravers transfer wax was mixed up with tallow and bees wax in the early 70's when I started. Over the years it needed replenishing. Not having or wanting to go looking for tallow,,I added additional bees wax, box-string wax, crayons, paraffin and probably others that I can't think of.
It's currently sickly green from a crayon
As long as it's tacky,,but doesn't smear,,it's good to go. You want it to pick up and hold the transfer image in place with some ability to stay in place w/o being easily wiped away.

Put about an inch of the bit into the handle.

[J. Talbert]

If you have the Lindsay sharpening system, I'd suggest that you secure the graver bits to the handles with some sort of removable means,  such as a set screw or collet, rather than with JB weld.  You'll find that sharpening them will be much easier.  
I have used the 3/32" bits in an Exacto knife handle with the collet drilled out (can't remember the exact size) to accept the bit, but a steel rod with a hole in the end and a set screw will work and give you a little more mass, if you prefer.

Jeff

[JTR]

Just learning to engrave...
I'd suggest buying one of the handles that Lindsey or GRS sells, and forget the homemade handle, at least for now.

When learning, becoming familiar with your tool is important, the way you hold it, how it fits in your hand, etc. A Lindsey or GRS handle is going to be shaped to work well, to feel comfortable, and not put undue strain on your hand and fingers.
Your homemade handle might,,, or might not, have these advantages. No point in making the learning process any more difficult.

John

[kutter]

I used wooden handles for many years,,just tapping the handle onto the bit while the bit was held in a vise.
works fine, no glue needed. You can try different handle shapes that way and change the bit when they do get short with another.

I did finally give in and bought a few of the square steel 'Belgian' type handles that Ngraver sells back in the early 80's.
Bit is held with a set screw. After trying those I never used anything else for hammer & chisel work.
I liked the extra weight of the handle.  Even working 12 & 14 hrs a day wasn't a problem with them (back then!)
But everyone has their own likes and dislikes so try a few different things and you'll find one that suits your needs.
 
There's never 'one way and only one way'or 'the best way' to do any of this work.

Sharpening isn't generally a problem attached to the handle, at least I never found it so.
If the handle is in the way,,the bit is probably getting too short.

 I used a couple different fixtures starting out, then for the majority of years just (free) hand held, then to a power hone when I went to carbide in the 90's.
Carbide needs a more precision point than what you can get away with on other steel bits being more brittle. Plus the diamond sharpening & polishing equiptment is needed.
Stuck using an air assisted graver now after 40+ years due to some med problems,,but even with their short bit and handle attached, I still sharpen with it as an assembly.

[DFHicks]

Thanks to everyone for the replies.  The Chapstick sounds like a great idea.  Now I won't have to boil those beef fat trimmings to make the tallow.  Also the bits I have are actually 3/32"; guess that's a major beginner's error.  I am planning to coat a bit blank with some Johnson's paste floor wax so the JB Weld won't stick to it.  This should make a tight hole but will allow me to remove the bits for sharpening.  Thanks for the point that the depth of the bit into the handle should be 1".  You all sharing your experience like that is greatly appreciated.
DFH

[T*O*F]

My next step is to make up the mixture to pick up the pattern from the paper.  I understand this is made of tallow and bee's wax.

What are you transferring from the paper........pencil, inkjet, laserjet, etc.  What's on the paper dictates what type of transfer medium you will use and all aren't compatible with the others.

[kutter]

I actually prefer the 3/32 to the 1/8" bit size. Less mat'l to grind and shape (remove) to form the point. The point need not be very large at all..

To set the bit into a wooden handle, I used to just take one end of the bit and grind a slight taper to it. Really no more than to remove the sharp edges of the end,,then a touch to remove the edges of the 4 corners.
,,not a long taper on all 4 sides like a file tang.
You want to keep a blunt end on the bit to avoid it being driven deeper into the handle w/use.
Takes just a few seconds to do on a grinder.
Then with a hole slightly smaller than the bit drilled in the handle, tap the handle onto the bit while it's held in a vise.

You can experiment with the hole size in a scrap piece of wood if you want before drilling your chisel handle.
A simple force fit makes it work. You really don't need to remove the bit unless it wears out and needs replacement. Then you put it back in the vise and carefully tap the handle back off of the bit.
 
A separate handle /w bit for each specific cutter you use.
Switching tool bits to a single handle is a real pain, concentration breaker and uses up your time.
(It's one thing I don't care for using an air assisted tool, but I have no choice at this point.)

It'll start out simple and soon the bench is covered with lots of tools. Some get rarely used but when you need them,,hopefully you can find them in the clutter!

Good point on the transfer wax.
 I use the tacky transfer wax as I make embossed 'lifts' of the engraving to be used again. Anything 'softer' bodied than that won't work for what I do. But like I said, everyone does these things differently.

 I transfer the image off of the card lift to the next project by coating the steel w/ the wax. Then lightly coating the embossed surface of the lift with a charcoal pencil, lay it down over the waxed surface, lightly burnish it and the charcoal highspots of the embosed image are transfered.

The wax is good to draw right on too with a pencil. Corrections made by just blotting over the spot with your already wax impregnated thumb and draw again. I usually do scroll layout that way. I never caught on to the Chinese White stuff idea. Sometimes the steel polish is so that you can draw directly on it w/o using any coating on it. Brass is especially go about that.

Using acetone to transfer a copier image, just a clean steel surface is all thats needed. Knock down the high gloss a little helps it pic up the image better. Easy on the acetone.
One works (InkJet I think),,one doesn't (Laserjet) with the acetone trick. I don't go looking for new ways as long as I have one that still works and my old Inkjet(?) printer  is still working.

Smoke pulls are nice to look at, but I don't find them particularly useful for image transfer. Great for detailed look at the pattern, sometimes better than a photo.
I sometimes do both a lift and a smoke pull of the same pattern for reference.

[Captchee]

  I think the point Kutter , was that with the Lindsey  templates , there is a  jig that the  graver must be placed into so as to give the correct angle .

 It should also be noted that with push graving . The tool is sized to fit your hand . Normally so that the  handle will fit in the palm of your hand while at the same time only having the tip of the graver  just  past the tip of your finger  and thumb .
 As to transfer wax . I don’t use it anymore . As was said .  There are many different transfer techniques

 Myself I use  my lazer jet to create the transfer . Then I apply a light coat of  Demar varnish to the  item in engraving  . Set the print out to the varnish  and let dry .
 Once dry place the item under cool water and  soak the paper .
 With just light and careful rubbing , the paper comes right off , leaving the  design


  

[Lee Slikkers]

Can you provide any more detailed info on the laser jet, paper, transfer, etc of you process?  I think this may be a easy way to try my hand at some horn scribing/graving for a 1st timer.

Many thanks~

[kutter]

If that's the case (with the Lindsey sharpening guide), then go right to a metal handle with a set screw and save yourself alot of agravations.

Dinosauer me, I never used anything like that, sorry. Everything always took the tool w/ handle attached.

I like the LaserJet transfer. I'll have to try that one. I have a L/Jet printer but rarely use it. Always fell back on the acetone/InkJet transfer if I needed it.

I have boxes full of envelopes with the lifts in them. Each from different make, model,grade of factory engraved guns, some custom jobs, plus lettering, markings, animals, ect. Very handy, quick and reusable when you're in the restoration biz.

I've got lots of hand-gravers. Some are real snubbies, some are quite long. Curved Ring cutters, even some for dishes and bowls,,not that they ever got used an awful lot. Depends on what I was cutting & I stayed away from the flatware/dinnerware inscription gig as much as I could..
I have a set of turned wooden graver handles with metal sliding furrels that allow  the square graver bit to be moved forward as it gets shortened with use.
Keeps the graver itself always the same working length in hand & they are longer than most hand gravers end up being set up for.
Handy for lettering mostly I found. Keeps the tool consistant and I liked the extra reach for doing lettering.

[Captchee]

 

Can you provide any more detailed info on the laser jet, paper, transfer, etc of you process?  I think this may be a easy way to try my hand at some horn scribing/graving for a 1st timer.

Many thanks~

 what i use is a old Brother 1240 laser printer  while the toner cartridges run about 30-60 bucks , the last a very long time .
 the  transfer i posted a photo of , was using simple , plain  white printer  copy paper .
 the image  is then mirrored  so that it will be correct  once transferred

 the mug was coated with  engraving white . once dry , i then  rubbed on a  coat of Demar varnish .
 While wet the  transfer is put into place  , then rubbed out tell you see the varnish soaking into the paper .. Everything is then let dry .
  Depending on the amount of varnish you used ,  that can take 15 minutes or longer .
 Once dry . I then  soak the item with  cool water so as to soften the paper .
 With just light rubbing , and keeping the paper  wet  it  will roll away  leaving the   toner , stuck in the varnish .
 Rub to hard or let the paper get to dry and the while image will peal away .
 Interesting enough , you can also transfer color  images from  say a magazine  this same way . it’s a type of decoupage  transfer

[Lee Slikkers]

Thank you Sir!  The engraving white and Demar varnish are the two pieces of the puzzle I somehow missed...many thanks, I'll have to see how this works on Horn.

Cheers!

[DFHicks]

Thanks for the additional replies and good information.   In response to T*O*F asking what type of printer I have: _  I have access to both a laserjet printer and an older inkjet printer.  The owner keeps the laserjet hooked up for routine use but apparently it's easy to switch to the inkjet.
I understand that inkjet printed items will "run" if they get wet so maybe transfer easier?  T*O* F what would be the simplest one for a technologically handicapped old guy like me?
Regards to all,
DFH

[Captchee]

Thank you Sir!  The engraving white and Demar varnish are the two pieces of the puzzle I somehow missed...many thanks, I'll have to see how this works on Horn.



Cheers!

I want to point out that you must let the varnish dry . If you rush  it . You will simple rub the transfer right off .
 also , There are faster and easier ways to transfer . but i have found that i get the best transfer  by doing  the way i discribed .
 it is slower . but i 99% of the time get a very good quality transfer with little to no concern of the  design rubbing off while im working on it .


It will do the same on a horn . you don’t need the engraving white though  unless your horn is a black horn .
 when im doing scrimshaw on horn ,. I use the same technique   to  define the main outlines . Then I come back and use  denatured alcohol to remove the  transfer . Then I come back and do all my definition and shading work
NOTE: this work was done with my Lindsey  Classic using Steve’s universal engraving tip .
 I couldn’t sleep on night and though I would see  what it could do .
 So yes the  stipple work is to large . Using a  much small tip  would have yielded much better work .
 But again this was just a test     
 

[T*O*F]

I understand that inkjet printed items will "run" if they get wet so maybe transfer easier?  T*O* F what would be the simplest one for a technologically handicapped old guy like me?

There are a number of ways to use both types of printers, but there are a lot of variables and some are printer specific.  It will take me some time to write it all up, perhaps this evening.

[T*O*F]

Basic Transferring to polished objects
The question has been asked how to make transfers with ink jet or laser printers.  Of the two, the laser printer is easiest, but not always fool-proof.  Ink jet printers are finicky and require some experimentation with your printer to see what works.

Supply list:
Plain paper      Scotch tape
Baking parchment      Damar varnish
Clear transparency film   Ronson Lighter fluid
Acetone         Something to burnish with.

You should have some type of software to scan and manipulate your pattern.  You will need to size your pattern to fit your work and also the capability to mirror the image so that it is correct when you transfer it.  Many multipurpose printers with scanners include software which will enable you to do this.  Otherwise, you will need a program to do it.  When printing, you should set your printer to its highest resolution, not draft or normal.  Usually this is the setting for printing photographs.

The laser printer deposits a dry toner on your paper, which is then fused with a heating element.  Is is the easiest to use on all media.  On plain paper,  one prints your pattern and places it face down on whatever you are transferring to.  You can hold it in place with your thumb or scotch tape on one edge.  Dip a Q-tip into your acetone and wet the paper until it is damp clear thru, but not soaked.  Then burnish the paper without it moving.  You can lift the paper up to ensure you have transferred your pattern....again not moving it.  Once transferred, lift the paper up and off without smearing your pattern.  Your burnisher can be anything that is totally smooth and slightly rounded.

Baking parchment has one smooth side and one rough side.  The smooth side is usually silicone coated making toner release much easier.  The same applies to clear transfer film.  Being transparent allows easier placement of your pattern on the object you are going to engrave.  To print on either of these, print your pattern on a piece of plain paper first.  Put a small X in the lower right hand corner of the paper as you will be feeding it thru the printer again.  Now cut a piece of parchment or clear film slightly larger than your printed pattern and scotch tape the edge that feeds into the printer first.  Run the piece of paper thru your printer again and then untape your transfer.  We do this rather than feeding whole sheets of parchment or film thru the printer and wasting it.  The film is rather expensive and a few sheets will last a long time.  These transfers can be burnished directly onto your smooth surface.  Laser prints are not time dependent.  They can be used immediately or weeks later.  Once you have transferred your pattern, you must spray it with a fixative to keep from smearing it.  A couple of light spritzes with hair spray will seal it in place.

Ink jet printers are more finicky and require experimentation to make them work.  Plain paper transfers seldom work.  The ink soaks into the paper and dries making it difficult to release.  These printers use two types of ink, dye base and pigment based.  Of the two, the pigment based is the one to use.  However, pigment based inks are not available for all printers.  Only certain manufacturers offer pigment based cartridges.  But it is still possible to get transfers with dye based ink.....you just have to do a juggling act to use it at the correct time in its drying cycle.  Too wet and it smears, too dry and it won't release.  You have to experiment with YOUR printer to make it work.

Generally, ink jets need something to pull the ink off and set it.  The beeswax/tallow mixture will work, but damar varnish is better.  This can be obtained from any art supply store or at Michaels.  It comes straight or pre-thinned.  If it is thick, you should thin it with the Ronson lighter fluid until it has a water like consistency.  It is spread on your object with a Q-tip, making sure you have full coverage but a very thin coat.  Your transfer is done when it is just very slightly tacky., not dried hard.  Have everything set up in advance.  Apply the varnish, then print your transfer.  When the ink has set, but not dried hard, apply and burnish your pattern as above.  You will have to play around to get the right combination of dryness.  The hotter the temperature, the faster your ink and damar will dry.

Parchment works best for ink jet transfers.  For some reason, not all clear films will work.  Also, when mixing your damar, a drop or two of white paint will give an opaque surface which makes your transfer stand out better when engraving it.  The damar does not require a fixative, but the beeswax/tallow does.

Lastly, you can print your pattern out on plain paper, put a piece of carbon paper under it and trace over the pattern with a .01 or .02 mechanical lead pencil.  For doing this, you would apply a very thin coat of China White or cover it with a yellow or silver magic marker first.  Once you have cut your design, any of the above methods can be removed with alcohol, acetone, or other handy solvent.

[Curtis]

That is very helpful,TOF.  Thanks for taking the time to do the write up.

Curtis

[Lee Slikkers]

That is very helpful,TOF.  Thanks for taking the time to do the write up.

Curtis

I couldn't agree more...thank you very much TOF.  I even cut-n-paste/saved this to a file so I could find it for use later this week maybe (need to have my grandfather help me turn a wooden Horn shaper so I can start on my 1st powder horn.  Cheers!

(also, I noted that maiden horn was a "practice" piece for you...I am stunned by that comment as I find that work amazing!)

[DFHicks]

As the other fellows said, Thanks T*O*F.  Lots of good information.   Also for those who suggested that I get a metal graver handle :  I have made one from the muzzle end of a 1890 pump .22 rifle barrel.  It was a relic from a house fire.  It is 5 3/4" long with a 5/16" carriage bolt screwed into the striking end.  That idea courtesy of a post on this forum.  It's a bit heavy which seems to work for me as it moves slower as I tap it.  Now if I could regain my eye sight of 30 years ago!
Regards,
DFH