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General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Danny Jones on October 26, 2011, 08:26:17 PM

Title: Homemade Browning Solutions
Post by: Danny Jones on October 26, 2011, 08:26:17 PM
I know this is an old subject but after doing an archive search I really did not find much. I have been using Laurel Mountain browning solution and it works pretty well. However, I would like to see if you folks have come up with a homemade solution that works. I don't really want to urinate on my parts. What have you tried?  Danny
Title: Re: Homemade Browning Solutions
Post by: keweenaw on October 26, 2011, 09:12:56 PM
I've been using the formula Oscar Gaddy published in Double Gun Journal.  It will produce an excellent smooth plum colored finish if used for short rust times at the correct temperature and humidity.  It will also produce a more textured, dark brown finish at higher temps and humidity.  It contains mercuric chloride.

Tom
Title: Re: Homemade Browning Solutions
Post by: John Archer on October 26, 2011, 09:44:09 PM
Danny...a good reference book for both blueing and browning recipes is "Firearm Blueing and Browning" by R. H. Angier. I bought a copy years ago fully intending to do some experimenting... I haven't got around to it yet.

John.
Title: Re: Homemade Browning Solutions
Post by: SuperCracker on October 26, 2011, 10:02:54 PM
I've been using the formula Oscar Gaddy published in Double Gun Journal.  It will produce an excellent smooth plum colored finish if used for short rust times at the correct temperature and humidity.  It will also produce a more textured, dark brown finish at higher temps and humidity.  It contains mercuric chloride.

Tom

I've seen his recipe and (pictures of) the results, however I did not know where to get the ingredients he listed. Where would you suggest?
Title: Re: Homemade Browning Solutions
Post by: cal.43 on October 27, 2011, 11:01:33 AM
take a look at this site http://www.arkeliet.net/gunsmith/index.htm (http://www.arkeliet.net/gunsmith/index.htm)
there are severals blueing and browning formulas
like

Quote
”Taschenbuch für prezisionsmechaniker. 1914”
116. Brüniersalbe: Das sogenaunte Brünieren
eine Arbeit, welche man auf Eisen oder Stahl, auch auf Kupfer ausNhrt, besteht darin, daß man auf den betreffenden Gegenstanden - meistens werden Gewehrlaufe so behandelt - einen Ucberzug hervorbringt, welcher aus Eisenoxyd and metallischem Antimon besteht, eine braune Farbe besitzt and deshalb auch als Briinierung bezeichnet wird. Man stellt das zum Brilnieren erforderliche Praparat (Dreifach-Chlorantimon oder Antimonbutter) dar, indem nian sehr fein gepulverten 9rauspießglanz (Dreifach - Schwefelantimon) mit starker Salzsaure kocht, bis keine Entwicklung von Schwefelwasserstof£ meter stattfindet; das Spießglanzpulver muß im Ueberschuße vorhanden sein. Die Losung wird abgegoßen and in einer Porzellanschale eine Viertelstunde lang auf 2001 C. erhitzt, worauf dann eine weiche, butterartige Maße entsteht, welche aus Dreifach-Chlorantimon besteht. Um die Brunierungsmaße darzustellen, reibt man das Dreifach-Chlorantimon mit Olivenol zusammen and reibt diese Maße mittels eines Wollentuches auf die zu brunierenden Gegenstande. Nach 24 Stunden sind dieselben rostig geworden; das Briinieren wird so oft wiederholt, bis der gewunschte Farbenton, der zwischen Hellbraun and Dunkelbraun abschattiert werden kann, hervorgetreten ist. Kleine, aus Eisenblech geprellte Galanteriegegenstande konnen in ahnlicher Weise


117. Brüinierflüssigkeit :
Diese Losung besteht aus 156 T. Eisenvitriol, 84 T. Eisenchlorid losung, 15 T. Eisenoxydulnitrat and 930 T. Wasser.

118. -: Man lost 1 T. Eisenvitriol in 22 T.
Wasser and gielt dazu 1/10 Salpetersaure odor
mischt 1 T. salpetersaures Silberoxy d in 500 T.Wasser.

118. -: Eine Mischung von gleichen Teile.
Salz- and Salpetersaure wird soweit erhitzt, daß Dampfe aufsteigen. In diese Dampfe werden (lie zu brbnierenden Teile etwa 5 Minuten lang eingehangt and dann auf eine Temperatur von etwas über 300 Grad so lange erwarmt, bis die Briinierung sichtbar wird, worauf die Stiicke zuin Abkiihlen gelegt werden. Die kalten Gegenstande werden mit Vaselin eingerieben and nochmals erwarmt, bis rich das Vaselin zersetzt. Das Einreiben mit Vaselin wird vorteilhaft wiederholt. Vor der Farbung mussen die Eisenteile gut entfettet werden, was bei polierten Gegenstanden am besten mit Benzin geschieht; Abreiben mit reinen Sagespanen genugt oft ebenfalls schon. Stark fettige Sti cke mussen in Aetznatron- odor Sodalauge entfettet werden

Title: Re: Homemade Browning Solutions
Post by: FALout on October 27, 2011, 01:03:50 PM
Anyone one have a translator?
Title: Re: Homemade Browning Solutions
Post by: dannybb55 on October 27, 2011, 01:14:15 PM
Who needs a translator, it's in Norwegian, That's north of the UK so it has to be similar.
Title: Re: Homemade Browning Solutions
Post by: Curtis on October 27, 2011, 03:36:25 PM
Here is a formula that I have used with great results, taught to me by Jack Brooks, I am not sure if it is his formula or one he learned elsewhere.

Take ferric chloride and mix it with water until it "looks like urine".  Add a tablespoon or two of alcohol, not more than 5% of the total solution.  Apply with a clean cloth, brush or swab.

It is a very effective browning solution that is also very economical to use.  I purchased my ferric chloride from Radio Shack, and a little goes a looong way.

Curtis
Title: Re: Homemade Browning Solutions
Post by: Dphariss on October 27, 2011, 05:37:38 PM
I know this is an old subject but after doing an archive search I really did not find much. I have been using Laurel Mountain browning solution and it works pretty well. However, I would like to see if you folks have come up with a homemade solution that works. I don't really want to urinate on my parts. What have you tried?  Danny

Find a copy of Angier's book on firearms bluing and browning.
http://www.amazon.com/Firearm-Blueing-Browning-R-Angier/dp/0811706109

Dan
Title: Re: Homemade Browning Solutions
Post by: Danny Jones on October 27, 2011, 07:54:04 PM
Thanks for the replys. Curtis's suggestion looks simple. I will give it a try.  Danny
Title: Re: Homemade Browning Solutions
Post by: kutter on October 27, 2011, 08:23:49 PM
I'll second a home made ferric chloride solution like SquirrelHeart posted.

Make it on the weak side rather than too strong as it can be aggresive. I use distilled water for the mix but perhaps plain from the tap will work fine. A touch of alchohol makes the applied coating flash dry quickly I think as well as maybe doing a bit of last minute cleaning. Seems to wet & cover  the surface better with it too than w/o it in the mix. Maybe that's it's best contribution,,

A plain water soln of about 5% or better yet less, will nicely etch cleaned steel bbls or parts to an even light grey overall at room temp if placed in it,,and rather quickly. A few seconds in fact.  Great for a prep for rust blueing. Same soln is used as a damascus finish etchant betw coatings.

The bore(s) have to be protected. I distrust plugs, so I just coat them with shellac. Several coatings and they're good to go for multiple trips through the boiling tank and the dunking in the etchant while doing a damascus finish. Amazing that shellac would stand up to the boilings, but it does.


Ferric chloride is on the acidic side of the Ph scale,,but just slightly so. Easier to control than using a straight acid like hydrochloric for either etching or even as a blueing soln. But acid can and is used for the processes and very succesfully.

Laurel Mtn is a ferric chloride soln. What ever else they put in it I don't know. I've used it for years for bluing and brown. No complaints.

I started mixing a home brew when I found myself with a quantity of ferric chloride used to mix an etching soln for damascus finish.


No mercury compounds to deal with,,a very big plus in my book after dealing with them for so many years. Stay away from them is all I can say.
No list of chemicles to measure, mix, decant, leave in the dark for a month, etc.
Simple, very cheap,,and effective.
Title: Re: Homemade Browning Solutions
Post by: Danny Jones on October 28, 2011, 03:28:25 AM
I assume you use a glass container - mix acid to distilled water at about a 5% solution and add a little alcohol. Do you usually apply it muliple times? Thanks  Danny
Title: Re: Homemade Browning Solutions
Post by: blunderbuss on October 28, 2011, 05:04:41 AM
Who needs a translator, it's in Norwegian, That's north of the UK so it has to be similar.

I think that Norweigen is German
Title: Re: Homemade Browning Solutions
Post by: Bill of the 45th on October 28, 2011, 05:08:44 AM
Glass container, yes.  Keep tightly sealed in your shop.  Left the lid off for a couple of days in my building shed, and spent days cleaning rust off of tools and parts, I didn't want to brown.  Same applies for ferric nitrate crystals.  They make good brown also.

Bill
Title: Re: Homemade Browning Solutions
Post by: Bill of the 45th on October 28, 2011, 05:12:40 AM
There's always the Amish method!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/Bill_Knapp/Picture031-1.jpg)

Bill
Title: Re: Homemade Browning Solutions
Post by: Curtis on October 28, 2011, 06:11:09 AM
Danny, Bill is correct in cautioning you about the browning solution fumes (any browning solution in fact).  Glass or plastic containers will work.  I use glass like Bill, plastic of course can be more impact resistant.

You will probably want to use multiple applications, carding between applications if you have a good rust going.  Your results will vary with the ambient humidity, or the humidity you create in your browning box or area.  I recently browned a barrel in my shop using the ferric chloride solution during a period of very low humidity.  I had limited time in the evenings to work on it so instead of creating a high humidity environment I simply applied two coats of solution, on two consecutive evenings.  For the next three evenings I took a spray bottle and misted the barrel a couple of times each evening with water.  I did not card it until the weekend arrived.  It produced a very fine grained and wear resistant finish on the barrel.  I am not recommending that method to anyone, just pointing out that there are many ways to achieve the desired finish and encouraging you to experiment with different methods to fit your needs.

I am sure Kutter has some excellent advice as to application and carding methods to share if he feels like posting them.

I have used Laurel Mountain browning solution in the past with good results, my only caution is if you rub it to aggressively it gives a coppery coating that interferes with the rusting process.  The home made ferric chloride solution seems to give a finer grained, much tougher browned finish than the commercial solution does.  Your Mileage May Vary...  ;)

Curtis
Title: Re: Homemade Browning Solutions
Post by: cal.43 on October 28, 2011, 02:18:14 PM
Anyone one have a translator?

Quote
"Handbook for prezisionsmechaniker. 1914 "
116th Brüniersalbe: The sogenaunte burnishing
a work which is ausNhrt on iron or steel, and copper, is that one of the object in question - most are gun over so treated - produces a Ucberzug, which consists of iron oxide and metallic antimony, has a brown color and therefore is called Briinierung. This condition is to Brilnieren necessary preparations (triple-antimony trichloride or antimony butter), since nian very finely powdered 9rauspießglanz (triple - antimony sulphide) boiled with strong hydrochloric acid until no further development of Schwefelwasserstof £ held meter, the antimony powder must be in surplus may be present. The solution is decanted and heated in a porcelain dish for fifteen minutes at 2001 C., after which creates a soft, butter-like dimensions, which consists of triple-chloride of antimony. To illustrate the Brunierungsmaße, rub together the triple trichloride with olive oil and rub these measurements using a cloth to want to brunierenden object. After 24 hours are the same become rusty, the Briinieren is repeated until the desired tint, which can be shaded off between light brown and dark brown has emerged. Small, can be made from sheet iron bruised Galante squad gene tandem in a similar manner


117th Brüinierflüssigkeit:
This solution consists of 156 T. ferrous sulphate, ferric chloride solution, 84 T., 15 T. Eisenoxydulnitrat and 930 parts of water.

118th -: 1 T. vitriol is dissolved in 22 T.
Water and gielt to 1 / 10 nitric acid odor
1 T. mixed nitrate Silberoxy d in 500 parts of water.

118th - A mixture of equal parts.
Salt and nitric acid is heated so far that rising steam. In these vapors (lie too long brbnierenden parts for about 5 minutes eingehangt and then to a temperature of about 300 degrees until warmed until the Briinierung is visible, after which Stucke Zuin cooling are placed. The cold object is rubbed with Vaseline and once warmed up rich decomposes the vaseline Rubbing with vaseline is repeated advantageous before coloring have to the iron parts are degreased well what polished with back Standen best done with gasoline,.. rubbing with pure legend machining Genugten often also have strong oily Sti bridge. have to be degreased in caustic soda-soda odor
translation with http://translate.google.de/?hl=de&tab=wT#de|en|
Title: Re: Homemade Browning Solutions
Post by: Danny Jones on October 28, 2011, 10:43:15 PM
Thanks! I went by the local Radio Shack this morning and ask the young lady if they carried ferric chloride. She said "what is that?". I told her it was for use in etching circuit boards and she says "what is a circuit board?". I've always thought the clips you see of young people on the street not having a clue about basic American history and other simple questions was fake. Maybe not, or I'm just getting old. I guess I will see about ordering some online.  Thanks  Danny
Title: Re: Homemade Browning Solutions
Post by: kutter on October 29, 2011, 03:36:19 AM
I had trouble getting it from RShack also and that was a few years ago.
Some didn't have it,,some didn't want to sell it w/o some sort of 'license(?)'

I finally bought some from a chemicle dealer on the net,,maybe it was even off of Ebay.

That 5% soln I made up, I use for etching bbls between coats doing a Damascus finish. No alcohol in it. I've never used it for a browning or rust blue soln. It's pretty weak, but it would probably work.

The  Ferric chloride I got is listed as 38.5% concentrate on the container.
It took my math challenged mind a while to figure a 5% (approx) soln and at that I may be off on my estimate.

When making up the browning/blueing soln,,I do just as Jack Brooks does,,pour the Ferric Chloride into a quantity of distilled water till you get a medium yellow color. Then the alcohol.

I mix very small quantitys up at a time in plastic prescription bottles. I like the shorter ones, I'm less apt to spill them! If I had to guess, I'd say the ratio is 3 parts water to 1 part ferric chloride.
No more than 5% of the total soln in alcohol,,so in my small mixes I throw in just a few drops of alcohol and shake it up.
You can see it's pretty un-scientific. You can experiment with the concentrations, applications, etc till you find what works best for you.... And that is the key,,what works best for you.

I like the small mixes so I don't loose alot if I contaminate it (easy to do if a spot of oil gets in there carried in by the applicator or however), or as I said Mr Shakey here tips it over.

Apply to room temp clean steel with a cloth patch damp with the soln. I stay away from using a patch of paper towel,,they have sizer, perfumes, etc in them,,even the plain white stuff.
When I did alot of quick rust bluing, I used to put the soln (different from this) on with a piece of steel wool as an applicator. That worked well for that system. It's not needed for cold rust brown or blue but it shows how you can experiment and try different things.

You don't want any runs in the soln on the surface. They will show in the final finish,,you don't want the surface to stay wet with the soln. It should flash dry off in a few seconds after you go over it. That's how little soln actually gets applied to the steel.
Avoid going over areas you've already coated. Sometimes on the first or second coat you'll miss a streak or line,,Don't worry,,you'll catch it the next time.

Engraving cuts will tend to avoid the soln the first coating or two but will eventually take OK.
When re-coating, do as the first time, nice easy once over and off. Don't go over a spot and scrub it in. The soln will remove what is already there as it is acidic. Most any rust blue soln will act that way.
Recoating, especially rust brown, may demand a bit more soln in your applicator pad  as the surface is somewhat more rough as the finish builds up. But still avoid any runs or excess on the surface.

When re-coating, I try to start from a different flat or spot on the barrel or part to avoid an unconciously layed down pattern to my application. The pad runs dry at the same rate in the same spots each time if you follow the same pattern. It can show in the finished product especcially on a finer polished blue, not so much in a brown finish.

Sometimes if the first coat doesn't rust as well as I think it should, I'll recoat w/o carding (or boiling if bluing) and then go on as usual at the second coating.

Ferric chloride works best (quickest) in higher humidity and temp, but I use it during the winter months also. The house is kept at 64F. It may take 24hr for a single coating to form at that temp. To speed it up, hang the parts in the bathroom from the shower bar after you've taken a shower and keep the door closed. Instant damp box. You'll have rust coating in about an hour or two..

One thing Laurel Mtn does have in it is a copper compound (copper sulfate?). I think it's for use as a marker of sorts to be able to see where you've coated the steel easily. The applications turns a blue grey color quickly as it drys on the steel. It really only helps on the first couple of coatings,,after that you're working over a brown or blue surface anyway.
It can be a pain sometimes as it will 'plate' the steel with a copper wash if the steel is the least bit too warm or you happen to reverse direction in application for some reason. It won't blue well in those areas , but a quick buff off with scotch-brite saves the day and you can go on.
..and they advertise it has a detergent cleaner in it so you don't have to clean the steel before applying. But I just do it as a normal course of the process.
Title: Re: Homemade Browning Solutions
Post by: Glenn on October 29, 2011, 03:47:25 AM
Thanks! I went by the local Radio Shack this morning and ask the young lady if they carried ferric chloride. She said "what is that?". I told her it was for use in etching circuit boards and she says "what is a circuit board?". I've always thought the clips you see of young people on the street not having a clue about basic American history and other simple questions was fake. Maybe not, or I'm just getting old. I guess I will see about ordering some online.  Thanks  Danny

Try these folks:  www.sciencecompany.com
Title: Re: Homemade Browning Solutions
Post by: Rolf on October 30, 2011, 09:51:24 AM
Here is a link to some experiments I with a home made ferric cloride rusting solution.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=9755.0

Best regards

Rolf
Title: Re: Homemade Browning Solutions
Post by: WadePatton on October 31, 2011, 06:28:21 AM
WRT availability at RadioShack (of ferric chloride), give this info to the clerk:

16 oz. PCB Etchant Solution
Model:276-1535
Catalog #: 276-1535

also found RS online and the big online auction site.