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General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: 1911tex on August 06, 2013, 05:22:25 AM

Title: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: 1911tex on August 06, 2013, 05:22:25 AM
Dove hunting season arrives in 30 days......my 20ga double is naked.
Every dealer, internet and local has been repeating the same song for over a year.  I just have a dozen or so #11 Remmingtons left in a tin I bought several years ago...sticker priced $2.39 per hundred on the tin.  I guess those days are loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong gone!
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Dogshirt on August 06, 2013, 07:19:39 AM
I haven't seen any place that DOESN'T have them. But then I only live 125 miles or so from CCI.
They have been $4.99 for the last 3 years or so, but I have not seen a shortage of caps.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Don Steele on August 06, 2013, 11:53:45 AM
$ 7.49 / 100 in Melbourne, FL last week.
Plenty available.
How many ya want...???  ::)
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: 1911tex on August 07, 2013, 03:20:06 AM
Thank you everyone.......I really appreciate you going the extra yard!  Wow what a great bunch of folks.  I have my caps.........
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: heelerau on August 07, 2013, 09:39:02 AM
 $10.50 here in Perth  Western Australia for Remington 10 and 11 caps, just enquired today.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Hungry Horse on August 07, 2013, 07:40:13 PM
 I toadja they was jist a passin' phase, that wouldn't catch on. Flintlocks rock!!

                      Hungry Horse
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Dogshirt on August 08, 2013, 01:59:13 AM
Ain't no fad. The whole rock thing is the biggest joke ever perpetrated on humanity. Some where , someone is looking and laughing himself sick.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: okawbow on August 08, 2013, 02:18:52 AM
I've been trying to buy #11 caps in Illinois for 6 months. No one has them. There are none available online. Gander Mountain says they won't have them until next year.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Kermit on August 08, 2013, 02:32:00 AM
So I'm kinda wondering about the shelf life of the caps the fearful are hoarding. Bet my flints have 'em beat by some. :D
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Dogshirt on August 08, 2013, 03:59:55 AM
I have some #12 caps from the 70s that still go off just fine. Since I don't plan on living 40 more years I figure
they have a lifetime shelf life. ;)
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: JTR on August 08, 2013, 04:36:30 AM
Ain't no fad. The whole rock thing is the biggest joke ever perpetrated on humanity. Some where , someone is looking and laughing himself sick.

Dogshirt,
I wonder why you’re so adamantly adverse to flintlocks?
If you just don’t like them that’s fine, but I’m curious why you seem to feel the need to blast them so often?
John
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Dogshirt on August 08, 2013, 04:45:53 AM
As if others here don't bash percussion? Had one, it sucked. Watch them at shoots try over and over to get them to fire. ABSOLUTRLY nothing will ever convince me to try another one. They just plain suck!
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Standing Bear on August 08, 2013, 05:03:15 AM
Look, we flint shooters aren't the ones trying to buy something to make our rifles go off. 

Maybe you were watching the wrong folks trying to shoot flinters.  Maybe the one you were working with was in need of something or you were taught wrong how to load and fire one.  IE There is not a thing in the world that will cure a soft frizzen except correct tempering.  I asked before what knid of flinter and load you were shooting that got you so riled up but you didn't answer.  Seems you have your mind made up and facts won't change it.  That's OK but know this, well tuned and properly handled flinters are quite reliable.

I have both and enjoy the flinters the most.  Now if I could just afford a good flint shotgun.
TC
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Ken Prather on August 08, 2013, 05:11:32 AM
I used to hate flintlocks too. But when you get one with a decent lock, and the touch hole is in the right location, they are quite reliable and fun to shoot. Mine goes off when I want it to and hits what I point it at most of the time---

I hunt with my flinters, brought home plenty of pheasant and tree rats even in the rain...  and even went wild hawg hunting with a flintlock---ok I admit, I sat by a tree with low hanging limbs.... ;D ;D But at the end of the day when I touched her off she spoke up just fine.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Dogshirt on August 08, 2013, 05:22:19 AM
Look, we flint shooters aren't the ones trying to buy something to make our rifles go off. 

Maybe you were watching the wrong folks trying to shoot flinters.  Maybe the one you were working with was in need of something or you were taught wrong how to load and fire one.  IE There is not a thing in the world that will cure a soft frizzen except correct tempering.  I asked before what knid of flinter and load you were shooting that got you so riled up but you didn't answer.  Seems you have your mind made up and facts won't change it.  That's OK but know this, well tuned and properly handled flinters are quite reliable.

I have both and enjoy the flinters the most.  Now if I could just afford a good flint shotgun.
TC

Yes you are, you have to buy flints. I've heard the old "I can get a rock anywhere!" Well, NO you can't. Not every rock
will spark, and you can't just pick one up and expect it to work, even if it IS the right kind. So flint shooters aren't any better off than cap shooters.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: 1911tex on August 08, 2013, 05:42:50 AM
Just had to go dove hunting with my double 20 percussion...needed caps which you great folks provided in this thread.  Don't want to get off subject, but>>>

Flinters have been my joy since a teenager for hunting deer, hogs and turkey.  In fact I still shoot that old 42", 50 cal. flinter and would not trade it for the finest modern made.

I look at it this way, flint has been around for 400 years successfully, and provided us with the greatest country in the world.  Percussion only about 30 more or less years and centerfire only since the civil war; however it was black powder for 30 years and smokeless since.......never catch up with flint in a dozen more lifetimes!

Flint is like riding a fine horse......knowing that has been the standard method of travel for a thousand years.  Until you ride in the saddle or walk carrying your flinter.........you can't begin to appreciate our heritage.  It is a mindset....an experience, and it is very effective.   Sure there are hunters with 300H&H magnums...but

So much for off subject and thanks again folks for a great forum!
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Candle Snuffer on August 08, 2013, 06:22:28 AM
Don't know when caps will be available?  I expect in some areas they are available, and in others, they're not.  I own both cap and flint rifles.  I like them both, but enjoy my flintlocks the most.  Flintlocks are reliable if one is willing to learn the firearm they are shooting.  It's really no different then learning the operation of a cap lock.  The key to both is quality locks, and not junk locks.  I've gotta give a plug to, Chamber's and those Siler locks, both flint and cap.  This is quality.

In the last 60+ days I've taken around 80 or so shots with my favorite flinter and haven't experience any misfires/hang fires, and we've had uncommonly "humid" weather conditions over this time period.  High humidity and moisture just about every day.  This is also with a Black English Flint that now probably has close to 120+ shots fired off it.  It's been in my rifle since last winter, only because the last flint with about 80 to 100 shots on it finally gave up the ghost.

So yes, I really like flintlocks over cap locks, and that's directly related to installing quality locks on my builds.

Just my two cents worth.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Standing Bear on August 08, 2013, 06:45:19 AM
Yes we are better off.  There is no shortage of flints from TOW and others.  And I live on a huge amount of suitable chert from which flints can be knapped.  Also, one can break a small file like a 6" MB and set her off.

Now when the control freaks start limiting or outlawing black powder, flinters will be in more trouble as the pseudo BP stuff ignites at way too high a temperature to work well if at all as a prime charge or a main charge.  Right now they are going after cartridge ammo which affects availability of caps - flint availability has only been hampered by Rich Pierce's retirement not by acts of the bureaucrats.

Don't let your blindness get in the way of good thinking.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Dogshirt on August 08, 2013, 07:57:06 AM
I'm not, which is why I will never own another flintlock.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Dennis Glazener on August 08, 2013, 03:09:04 PM
Quote
I used to hate flintlocks too. But when you get one with a decent lock, and the touch hole is in the right location, they are quite reliable and fun to shoot. Mine goes off when I want it to and hits what I point it at most of the time---
My hunting buddy uses one of those modern, state of the art Rem 700ML that constantly fails to fire. He covets my Dickert 54 caliber with its Jim Chambers Siler flintlock. It has embarrassed him in wet weather as well as dry. He is amazed at its reliability.
Dennis
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Frizzen on August 08, 2013, 03:13:38 PM
If I could have only one, it would be a Flint. I have shot both for over 50 years.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Old Bob on August 08, 2013, 03:24:40 PM
As if others here don't bash percussion? Had one, it sucked. Watch them at shoots try over and over to get them to fire. ABSOLUTRLY nothing will ever convince me to try another one. They just plain suck!

Those guys must be somewhat lacking in basic skills. I've had much less trouble getting a flintlock to fire than a percussion. In fact, I was so fed up with a cap gun I made a new flint lock for it.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: okawbow on August 08, 2013, 04:47:28 PM
Earlier this year, I converted my percussion Bedford Co. to flint, because I cannot get percussion caps. I make my own flints from local Burlington chert, and they spark great. As I said earlier; there are no caps available locally, and the one supplier I found online, wanted $20.00 per tin of 100 caps for hazardous shipping.

As far as I'm concerned; caps are no longer available.

Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Jerry V Lape on August 08, 2013, 06:03:51 PM
What flintlock did you own that failed you so badly.  Please tell us so we may avoid that one as well? 

By the way, if blackpowder should no longer be produced we will still have other options such as the sugar based powder or homemade blackpowder.  May not be as good as what is now available but it will shoot. 

If your argument is extended just a bit there is no reason for you to be shooting percussions either as smokeless modern cartridge rifles have been available for more than a century and they are highly reliable. 

I had problems learning to get reliable performance from my first flintlock.  Now it is not perceptibly slower than any percussion (I know the percussions are usually faster by couple thousandths of a second but I can't tell the difference.) 
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: SCLoyalist on August 08, 2013, 06:05:28 PM
  Flinters can be more picky to work with - more springs to be in balance, more surfaces that have to be properly tempered,  and even for a properly tuned lock the ignition system continually changes as the flint edge is altered with every strike against the frizzen.  My main reason for shooting flint is flintlocks were predominant during the historical periods I'm interested in and that's what the hobby is all about.   That still didn't stop me from buying 3000 CCI no. 11's when I found them at 80 percent off in a hardware store going out
of business.

Rock suitable for flintknapping is available from several commercial sources, at a cost of around $1 per pound (and no Hazmat charge).   A friend who knaps gave me a box of rocks (various chert, flint, agate, fire coral as I recall) and I tried making gunflints.   What I produced is at best gun spalls, and wouldn't ever be mistaken for Tom Fuller's products, but they do throw sparks and fit it the lock jaws better because they don't have the characteristic 'hump' back.   I know my yield of usable spalls per raw rock is low (but will get better with practice). The thing is, it's just a piece of rock.   When I paid $1.75 per 'black English gun flint' I felt bad if for any reason it only lasted 25 shots.  But, for a spall I knapped myself, heck, if it only last 10 shots, it's no big deal.   It's just a  piece of a rock.    ;D
 

Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Maven on August 08, 2013, 06:20:03 PM
I was able to purchase 1/2 doz. tins (100/tin) of Winchester #11 Magnum percussion caps yesterday from our local Gander Mountain, but at $7.99 each.   (Rumor has it they are repackaged CCI's;  They certainly look the same.)  Can't say I'm thrilled with the price, but that's typical of Pander, especially since there's no other source muzzle loading supplies nearby. :(
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: bob in the woods on August 08, 2013, 06:39:28 PM
I can go into the woods behind the house and come up with pieces of quartz that I can and have used in my flintlock fowling piece. Works like a charm  ;D
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Candle Snuffer on August 08, 2013, 09:27:41 PM
I think the "ammo" fixin's will shine again someday.  First, we have to get out of this paranoid period many are living in today, and hoarding everything they can, simply for the sake of hoarding it.  Just takes some time.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Dogshirt on August 09, 2013, 03:40:31 AM
Just bought 5 tins for 4.99 a tin. Could have bought 30, but I'm not greedy. :) This leads me to belive the "shortage" must be a regional thing.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Don Getz on August 09, 2013, 04:55:00 PM
Hey Dog.........about those flintlocks.   You should make the trip down to the Alvin York chunk gun shoot.   Over 200 shooteers,
normally shot in two relays.   The shoot is held by posting a single target, one shot at it, and a total of 10 targets.   No time
on relays, but, wanna know what holds up the line the most?........cap poppers.........Don
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Dogshirt on August 09, 2013, 06:37:39 PM
That's a LOOOOONG way from Washington, I'll never be there in this life time, Montana is about as far east as I
go.
 I don't see what holds it up. I get more misfires in one night from the match grade ammo I shoot in competition
than I get from my caplock in a year. I have MAYBE 2 a year, and that is from undersized CCI caps. Only takes
another strike to fire. Other than a dryball, I have zero problems with it. And yes, I have dryballed once or twice. ;D
As to CCI caps, I've found the Magnums to fit fine, but the Standard caps seem to be slightly undersize. It's almost like they are a 10 1/2 instead of 11. I know I don't need the Magnums to set off real BP, but I use them so I don't have that issue.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Frizzen on August 09, 2013, 08:11:32 PM
I have shot many a match in the rain that I have been doing this over 40 years. Percussion guns have lots
more problems than Flint. Here in Missouri we have had to wait on percussion guns to fire. No waiting on
the Flint boys. This is fact!.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: JTR on August 09, 2013, 08:19:48 PM
I get more misfires in one night from the match grade ammo I shoot,,,

Misfires with match grade ammo? Uh-huh.....  ::)

John
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Dogshirt on August 09, 2013, 09:36:23 PM
Generally it's just a blank spot in the priming compound. If I re-chamber it to hit on a different part of the rim it fires.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Standing Bear on August 10, 2013, 12:00:59 AM
I've had that problem on several makes and grades of .22 ammo.  Thought for a while it was my old HS Trophy w a worn down firing pin or weak spring but have had a few in rifles too.  Like you said, eject and rechamber with the strike mark in a different location  and bang.

Bean counters must have been trying to save a penny's worth of material for every 100 rounds or so.  Its a pain in timed or rapid fire.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Vomitus on August 10, 2013, 02:03:16 AM
  I hear they quit making them,lol!
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Dogshirt on August 10, 2013, 03:18:17 AM
  I hear they quit making them,lol!


What? Flints? That's going to upset some folks! :D
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: iloco on August 10, 2013, 03:33:55 AM
I bought a case of 10 tins from my local gun shop here in South West Va.  He had a case of 10 tins in stock when I left the shop. $5.00 a tin.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: david50 on August 11, 2013, 04:45:43 AM
i wish one of you caplock shooters lived close by,i have around 2000 caps i will never use and would sell cheap.i dont think you can ship them in the mail.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Dogshirt on August 11, 2013, 06:25:10 AM
Oh, they can be shipped. You just have to be "creative"! I just got a couple tins of "Altoids" in the mail. ;)
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: ebiggs1 on August 14, 2013, 06:17:31 PM
If flintlocks were so great, why did they give way to cap locks and eventually center fire?
Maybe not a reasonable argument but one thing for sure flintlocks are way more fun! ;D

I shoot everything and throughly enjoy shooting my flintlocks but when the rubber meets the road caps win. ::)
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Hungry Horse on August 14, 2013, 07:09:39 PM
ebiggs;

   The answer  is the same reason cars are made of tin foil, and old milk jugs, today. Industrial shortcuts, and profit margins. You had to know what you were doing to make a reliable flintlock. A caplock could be made by nearly anyone. Plus the need for caps make you dependent. Its a big win win for gun peddlers, and cap sellers.

                         Hungry Horse
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: JTR on August 14, 2013, 11:07:49 PM
Ha! When the rubber meets the road, my 375 H&H mag handles the situation quite nicely!

I know, apples to oranges, but there's no winning answer to this flint/percussion argument anyway..

Just for a fun comparison, sit a half inch thick steel target out at 50 yards and shoot it with both a big bore smokeless powder rifle and a big bore black powder rifle. The black powder gun comes out looking like a puny pea shooter, and flint or percussion makes no difference!  ;D

John
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: 1911tex on August 15, 2013, 03:38:24 AM
JTR:  John, not being too overt here, but you are making as much sense as saying your car (whatever it is) can run circles around a 1930 Model A......but you know what, that Model A have maybe 1M times the devotes (and clubs) than your car.  The comparison you give between your super duper powerful centerfire and a flint/cap is no different...and if you were standing down range at your 50 yards with either, I dont think you would live to tell the difference.......dead is dead.

Sorry, but I still dont get your point.....or what you are trying to prove or convince on this thread.....

And a little more on the subject of this thread...The Dove killed with my 20 guage cap and ball are just as gone as those taken with my buddys 12 guage auto....but it took him 3 quick shots ($$) bam, bam, bam to my one boom to collect a dove.

He loves his new auto and guess what, I love my smoke pole and really enjoy reloading just as much as he enjoys putting 3 more shells in his tube; however, my flinter has my undivided attention with over 40 years of successful hunting.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: JTR on August 15, 2013, 04:29:19 AM
Just kidding around Tex, and forgot to delete it!  :o
John
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: draken on August 15, 2013, 07:23:52 AM
I'm not here to throw rocks at those P-word guns, but maning shooting station in the Simon Girty's woods walks at EPR's,  it was my observation that a flint shooter experiencing a misfire usually took it in stride and quickly fixed the problem, while a shooter with a P-Word gun was often at a loss when they couldn't get their weapon to fire. :o  We always kept a vent pick, nipple wrench and pan-primer handy to assist shooters
 in getting their gun to fire if need be.  It would happen 2 or 3 times at every woods walk I ever worked on. 

Probably because the guns weren't cleaned properly, or often enough.  :-\   ???
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: ebiggs1 on August 15, 2013, 03:06:39 PM
ebiggs;
 A caplock could be made by nearly anyone. Plus the need for caps make you dependent. Its a big win win for gun peddlers, and cap sellers.

                         Hungry Horse

Now Hungry you don't really think that's the reason we switched to caps and primers?
There is a great restaurant in Holtville, Alabama called "The Hungry Horace". The owners name was Horace. Don't know why I told you all that because I haven't thought of it for years.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Hungry Horse on August 15, 2013, 04:17:41 PM
ebiggs;

  Come on, do a little research instead of just running your yapper. Before 1840 the government was regularly rejecting contract rifles, because the locks were junk. It simply took too much knowledge of geometry, and metallurgy, to produce a quality flintlock. So the government utilize modern technology ( the percussion cap), and dumbed down the labor force, and went percussion. Many of the reject rifles, and muskets, got converted before the government got on the band wagon, and were sent west as surplus.

                     Hungry Horse
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Black Jack on August 15, 2013, 05:36:26 PM
Getting back to the question raised by the OP, I just bought 6 tins of #11 caps at my local Gander Mtn, so they are available in some spots. They were expensive, but that's the way it goes. Any shortages may be localized. They did have #10s at a cheaper price.   
BTW, I love flintlocks and own a few, as well as percussions. From my observations at different club shoots, I would generalize that a quality flintlock can be made to fire almost as reliably as a capper, gives almost as quick ignition, and, with proper care, is almost as reliable in wet weather.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: ebiggs1 on August 15, 2013, 06:35:06 PM
ebiggs;

  Come on, do a little research instead of just running your yapper.

                     Hungry Horse

C,mom, Hungry. The instant the first cap and cap lock was made spelled the demise of the flintlock. The flintlock is not superior in any way. Look around, my friend, how many flintlocks do you still see? 99% of mankind is on board with caps and the resultant primers.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Hungry Horse on August 15, 2013, 09:18:19 PM
 Not at all, cap guns  had to wait for the transportation network to get finished, before the majority of the population would buy in. Flintlock trade guns were still on the shelves in Canada, and Alaska, in the eighteen eighties, because the network that delivered the caps, wasn't reliable. The metallic cartridge caught on a lot faster than the percussion cap, because it could use the delivery system that eventually made the percussion cap popular.

                     Hungry Horse
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Dogshirt on August 16, 2013, 03:28:21 AM
Flintlocks were still on the shelves in the North because there was NO OTHER MARKET! The cap system was deliberately
kept from the Northern market because they DIDN"T KNOW ANY BETTER! Speaking of doing research, try reading The Beaver. HBC deliberately sold flintlocks in the North BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE WANTED THEM!
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: k varga on August 16, 2013, 03:45:24 AM
just ordered 6000 today from powder inc 400.00 shipped, no problem
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: bob in the woods on August 16, 2013, 03:56:54 PM
The simpler a system is, the more popular it will eventually become.  Why ?   Less training required.
It is the dumbing down of everything.    I know some folks who have never even cleaned their gun.
I depend on my flintlock , but I I started with a high quality lock, and then took the time and practice to learn how to use it. It is now second nature for me. 
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: 1911tex on August 17, 2013, 09:14:31 PM
taken in good friendship.........
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: sse on September 04, 2013, 11:45:29 PM
There are places where you can still buy a tin of 100 caps for 5 bucks, + sales tax, about as good as you will find.

Regarding reliability, a disclosure:  I don't own a flintlock.  I'd like to for all the reasons mentioned.  My first one will likely be a trade gun. 

Anyway, I'm afraid there are a lot of folks who shoot flinters, who really don't know how to get them to shoot several shots in succession, without a misfire.  I recently worked a walk-thru keeping score.  Most of the guys (and gals) had flinters.  Many of them had misfires, some more than two, which disqualified them for that stand.  I've never had such problems getting the capper to go off.  For you folks with flinters who really stay on top of these things, I think you're in a minority.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Dogshirt on September 05, 2013, 04:16:35 AM
There are places where you can still buy a tin of 100 caps for 5 bucks, + sales tax, about as good as you will find.

Regarding reliability, a disclosure:  I don't own a flintlock.  I'd like to for all the reasons mentioned.  My first one will likely be a trade gun. 

Anyway, I'm afraid there are a lot of folks who shoot flinters, who really don't know how to get them to shoot several shots in succession, without a misfire.  I recently worked a walk-thru keeping score.  Most of the guys (and gals) had flinters.  Many of them had misfires, some more than two, which disqualified them for that stand.  I've never had such problems getting the capper to go off.  For you folks with flinters who really stay on top of these things, I think you're in a minority.

This is what I see more often than not.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: LH on September 05, 2013, 07:19:04 PM
Quote
I'm afraid there are a lot of folks who shoot flinters, who really don't know how to get them to shoot several shots in succession, without a misfire.

Aint no doubt about that.  Seems like most flintlock owners never progress past the beginners stage as far as operating their guns go.  A lot of flint owners I've talked to over the years just think misfires are a constant with flintlocks. It aint got to be that way,  but some interest in the mechanism is required.  Desire for that specific knowledge is the key.  If you "want" it bad enough,  you'll hunt up the answers and work at operating and building a reliable gun.  If a man is really "casual" about it,  he will accept performance at the level of "it might go off when I pull the trigger".   Flintlocks have always fascinated me,  but there's probably something wrong with me too.   :)
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: D. Taylor Sapergia on September 05, 2013, 11:39:58 PM
I just bought 2000 at the BC Rendezvous last week.  The Leppercon had at least ten thousand on hand.  $70/1000.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: bob in the woods on September 06, 2013, 01:24:37 AM
I have a percussion under hammer target rifle which I used to shoot all the time. It is an absolute tack driver, and I still like to take it to the range once in a while.  When I went to a flint lock , I figured that the only way to really learn how to use it , was to start with a quality lock [ Chambers ]  and to commit to using it for all my target shooting and hunting . I did that for over two years, and learned a lot.   If I get a " klasch " or flash in the pan, it is because i didn't do what I know should be done :- ]      In humid weather, wipe the bottom of the flint after a few shots, wipe the pan cover [ bottom of the frizzen ]  wipe out the pan , make sure the flint is tight, and sharp.  Check the touch hole to see it's open. I now do these things without thinking and am confident enough  in my gun to hunt and depend on it for all kinds of game.   Yes, a percussion is easier to use, but percussion guns have their own set of peculiarities.  and can be unreliable at times if you do not tend to their wants.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: k varga on September 06, 2013, 02:34:44 AM
i understand the original question WAS when caps will be able to be GOT.
  POWDER INC TOLD ME THAT cci WOULD NOT BE MAKING ANY TILL 2014 

Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: sse on September 06, 2013, 04:32:48 PM
 Yes, a percussion is easier to use, but percussion guns have their own set of peculiarities.  and can be unreliable at times if you do not tend to their wants.
Very true...

Also, I saw a lot of shooters doing the very things you mentioned.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: bob in the woods on September 06, 2013, 06:32:14 PM
Back to the original question- Caps, like all components , are manufactured in a run , so that the set up etc is worth while.  CCI does the same type of thing with their rim fire ammo [ .17 MHR etc ]   When they get to it, they'll make enough for years and years  ;D  Mean while, there are shops with enough on hand here, so I'd shop around. I have no trouble coming up with a thousand from our local shop.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: stuart cee dub on September 06, 2013, 10:49:40 PM
One of my shooting buddies works at Federal cartridge  Mpls plant .
His comment a few months ago was ''buy caps now'' .He synopsized the situation as follows

CCI part of the same group as Federal and makes percussion caps on the same production line as centerfire primers.
Federal gets their centerfire primers from CCI and is backordered years .
Unprecedented buying of all kinds of centerfire ammo has only made things worse.

Sadly the caps black powder shooters are not nearly as profitable as fully loaded centerfire ammunition is to the ammo manufacturers.

So as soon as the get more caught up on centerfire primers the answer ...probably no time soon .There were complaints at the territorial shoot last July as many shooters had not kept a sufficient supply of caps and were worried .
I have seen some RWS on the shelves .Great caps .
 
In the mean time I have set aside all my percussion gun projects and started work on a M Fordney style flintlock.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: ottawa on September 08, 2013, 04:12:05 PM
just bought #11 wichester mag at wally world yesterday $7.95 per tin
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: kb2112 on November 18, 2013, 04:22:35 PM
Here in NY, what is available is ridiculously priced.  Now that big game season has arrived, its $20 per 100, if they have them!!

Most shops dont have them.  Im down to only a tin or two for hunting.  If anyone can point me in the direction of #11's, that would be great.

This is really frustrating, as Im cutting back on my range time to conserve them for hunting.

Thanks
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Dphariss on November 18, 2013, 06:41:26 PM
If flintlocks were so great, why did they give way to cap locks and eventually center fire?
Maybe not a reasonable argument but one thing for sure flintlocks are way more fun! ;D

I shoot everything and throughly enjoy shooting my flintlocks but when the rubber meets the road caps win. ::)

Everything has its pluses and minuses. One must remember that the flintlock never went out of use in America. I think it was Cline who once bought an original rifle from an old man he had heard had one and when he arrived the man was preparing to load it to go Squirrel hunting. The same can be said of percussion. But its only been in use since the 1820s-30s. The caplock was a revelation to wing shooters in England due to lock time but the FL held on longer in rifles according to George. There were people who went to CA in the 1840s with a flintlock rifle because percussions were not really trusted. In the early 1830s the American Fur Company SPECIFICALLY ordered flintlocks from Henry stating the percussion would not do.
Moderns, especially people who have never had much contact with GOOD flintlocks seem to think that the flintlock was immediately thrown on the trash heap about 1830 because "percussion is better". But we need to remember that OUR percussion system is not THEIR system. Horridly corrosive caps, inconsistent caps. Poor nipple design, blown barrels of gun converted to percussion from flint. No it was not "better" in all respects.

Here is the deal. Percussion guns have a lot of hidden passages. They don't do well with massive holes in the nipple, accuracy wise, and they are prone to problems. Wiping between shots is more likely to cause a misfire with a percussion than a flint since the flint has a simpler flash channel.
With a flintlock if the vent is clear and the flint sharp and primed PROPERLY it will fire. The problem is generally with the operator if a flintlock misses fire or flashes.

And YES in some places its possible to pick up "rocks" off the ground that will work. I have done it. In my area its Agate generally. Now if in the west and you find even one it will keep you fed for a long time weeks maybe. If the person is low on flints and REALLY looked for something he will find a few more.  Shoot a buffalo jerk the meat and it will run one man for quite some time. I picked up 2-3, one lock ready as it came from the ground, walking 1/2 mile back to my truck one day.
I have a friend with a percussion rifle I built some years back. In matches he wipes every shot and has to pop a cap before loading. This rifle has a good breech and I taper reamed the flash channel to almost the nipple seat to assure it would not have problems. It does. Why? I have no idea unless its something the breech   maker did that I missed.
Why do flintlocks fail to fire? Poor design (modern usually but some "vintage" locks are $#@* too), poorly hardened/wrong steel alloy frizzens, not knowing how to run a flintlock, having wet fouling in the pan and/or vent. Believing that a little priming is enough. Letting the flint get dull, one of my failings at matches. There is a long list.
Caplocks with poorly aligned hammers, poor nipple design, poorly laid out flash channels. There is a list here as well. Not to mention that the percussion system is more prone to accidental discharges after the cap is removed to make it "safe". Its better to leave the cap on.
A good flintlock gives little or nothing in reliability to the percussion. But the percussion is easier to shoot, for most people. If properly made and the caps are right its a little more reliable in the wet unless the FL shooter has a cover. Many percussion shooters get into trouble by thinking it does not need to be covered in wet weather.
Yeah I have run around the mountains guiding hunters on pretty wet 10 day go arounds and had no problems. Good lock, good management FL works. I have difficulty building percussion guns. I just don't like them. Some bad experiences years ago that were worse than a misfire and a few others related by friends and others.

As I have likely posted before. As late as the 1840s experienced western hunters were still telling people that the percussion was not reliable.
People need to shoot what they like.  But coming to a site inhabited with flintlock shooters, many or whom are well experienced and KNOW how to make the "run" well and have done so for decades and spout off about people having trouble with them.  I have seen people REPEATEDLY jam my absolutely reliable 1911 Colt because they did not know how to shoot it properly. They limp wristed the pistol which causes it not to cycle properly.
Buy a Wall Mart FL, put 1-2 gr of priming in the pan and it will start to flash in the pan if not initially in a few shots. Buy a recreation of a Manton FL put it into a properly designed and assembled gun and use the proper level of prime, a good flint and its going to fire. Same for a Chambers Siler etc.
Cheap flintlocks were junk in 1770, in 1830 and they are junk now. One of the American Fur Company's instructions to Henry was to take great care in selecting the locks.

Dan
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: SCLoyalist on November 18, 2013, 07:49:40 PM
KB2112:   If there's a Basspro near you, check with them.   A friend from TN who's a Basspro employee said his store got them in just in the nick of time for hunting season, so maybe BassPro NY is seeing similar deliveries.   Good luck.  SCL
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Candle Snuffer on November 18, 2013, 10:15:13 PM
I haven't seen any caps available for some time.  About two years ago I started shooting my flintlocks more then my cap locks, and with the cap shortage, I've even thought about converting several of my cap lock rifles to flint, but I haven't as yet since I have a couple flintlock rifles I like shooting a lot with.

With the above said,,, down the road if the cap situation does not improve, or if caps sky-rocket when they do come available, I'll just stick with my flintlocks and then reconsider converting the cap locks to flint.

Really, as I understand it, hardly anything at all is available these days (shootin' wise).  Flint, powder, and lead is still out there.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: galamb on November 18, 2013, 11:00:41 PM
I work in retail warehousing and we just received (last 2 weeks sometime) a notice from our ammunition suppliers (the wholesalers for Federal, Winchester and Remington, our primary brands) stating that the outlook for 2014 is no better than it was for 2013 with regards to availability and that we should order an entire years supply for every product desired, plus every possible substitute and basically "hope for the best".

They state that a component shortage coupled with higher than usual demand has left significant back-orders for just about everything that is normally shipped.

Since this "drought" is coming into it's second year and doesn't look to be coming to an end anytime soon, if you can find a source you may want to acquire a couple years supply, with a bit extra "just in case".

Even the premium ammunition is becoming difficult to get - so when a $65 box of 30.06 is in short supply, you know the low margin items are not going to be produced...
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: drago on November 19, 2013, 03:40:37 AM
Sportsman warehouse has RWS in stock
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: stude283 on November 19, 2013, 05:37:15 AM
KB2112,
            I don't know where in NY you are,but Frank's gun shop in Gloversville NY has CCI 10's and 11's and I think Winchester mag 11's in stock at reasonable prices.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Maven on November 20, 2013, 07:25:54 PM
Just returned from the Gander Mtn. Kingston, N.Y. store, which has both Remington #11 and Winchester #10 & #11 percussion caps @ $6.99 (mismarked) and $7.99, respectively.  Their prices are typically very high, but unforunately, they're the only game in town. :'(
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Black Jack on November 20, 2013, 07:27:16 PM
I posted back in August that they were available at my local Gander Mtn (Scranton, PA area). That is still the case and the racks are fully stocked with Remington and Winchester brand #10 and #11 caps. Priced from 6.95 to 7.95 per 100 tin.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: jamesthomas on November 21, 2013, 01:40:45 AM
 A gun store near me has them $7.99 a 100, But I shoot a FL. TOTW will always have flints with no hazmat. Having a percussion rifle with no caps is like having a Ruger 10/22 with no bullets.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: drago on November 21, 2013, 02:28:36 AM
Hey James lets hold down the talk about hazmat fee's on flints[you know how sharp they are], they cost enough without the Revernuers getting involved!
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: jamesthomas on November 21, 2013, 06:00:55 AM
 Sorry ;) I forgot that sharp an dangerous items might the next thing to get banned or charged an extra fee for shipping. The next thing we will be limited to a 10 flint maximum order!! ;D with a 20 flint maximum in possession.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Black Jack on November 22, 2013, 05:00:04 PM
The next thing we will be limited to a 10 flint maximum order!! ;D with a 20 flint maximum in possession.
.......not to mention the three day waiting period!
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Topknot on November 23, 2013, 03:28:29 AM
Aint no shortage of caps around here. I bought a box of 1000 CCI a couple of weeks ago at shotgun sports here in anniston, al.

                                           topknot
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: moleeyes36 on November 23, 2013, 05:03:22 AM
They had plenty of #10 and #11 caps in Bass Pro Shop's Outdoor World in Orlando, FL yesterday.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: blaksmth on November 29, 2013, 07:39:39 AM
I got a box of caps at sportsman warehouse in Colo Sprgs gave $7.99 for them they were RWS which is all they had, would rather had CCI but I took what I could get and almost had a stroke at the price :o I guess I will see how they work, I never had a bad CCI cap though
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Candle Snuffer on November 29, 2013, 09:02:42 AM
RWS are good caps, probably higher quality then CCI.  I've used them for over 20 years and have never experience any trouble with them.  I believe they are a hotter cap.  CCI were always reliable caps as well.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: galamb on November 30, 2013, 05:26:15 AM
Just today at work we got in a long standing back order of CCI #11 percussion caps.

Figure if they have made their way, through the supply chain to "small town Eastern Ontario, Canada" from the US supplier we order from, the "drought" may soon be over...
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Hungry Horse on December 16, 2013, 07:53:46 PM
 If CCI caps hadn't become available i probably would have switched to flint ten years earlier. RWS, Dixie, and Remington, caps were what was available out here on the left coast back then. I didn't like Dixie's (Italian brass) or Remington's poorly sized, caps. So, I used RWS caps, not because they were all that good, they were just better than the rest. When I got my first batch of CCI's I was hooked. The old kit guns I had been shooting weren't reliable until I got that batch of CCI's. They are the best cap on the market IMHO.
 By the way a friend that is still playing with cap guns, told me yesterday he got a batch of CCI's shipped to him from The Gun Works, in Oregon. So, some caps are still in the pipeline if you hunt around for them.

                       Hungry Horse
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: moleeyes36 on December 16, 2013, 11:21:15 PM
I saw both CCI #11 and Remington #10 caps in the Bass Pro Shop's Outdoor World the other day when I was in there.
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Nit Wit on December 22, 2013, 05:36:15 PM
Wal mart in Maine has Winchester brand, 7.50 a tin
Nit Wit
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Hungry Horse on December 22, 2013, 08:24:44 PM
 It appears that if you can't find caps, you need to look where they are a major part of the stores business. The average sporting goods stores are out. But he stores that cater to shooter seem to have caps. They are pretty pricy, depending on where you get them.

             Hungry Horse

Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Candle Snuffer on December 23, 2013, 03:48:28 AM
And I know no one wants to hear this, but it may very well be getting to the point of considering converting your cap lock to a flintlock.  Just out of curiosity I took a look at Dixie Gun Works, and they have some caps - limit one tin - with a hazmat fee of near 28.00 on top of the one tin of caps.

This is ridiculous!

Fortunately I have both cap and flintlock rifles and at this time I prefer to shoot my flintlocks.  If and when caps become available once again, it is anyone's guess what the price of caps will be.  I'd suggest if you have a cap rifle you could convert to flint, I'd convert it.

Just a suggestion.  I do hope all who prefer the cap locks will find caps at a reasonable price soon.   
Title: Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
Post by: Eric Krewson on December 26, 2013, 08:19:07 PM
I was in the local (Florence Alabama) Gander Mountain a few days ago, they had plenty of #11 caps in the B/P section, both CCI and Remington if I remember correctly.