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General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: adkmountainken on February 07, 2017, 03:55:42 PM

Title: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: adkmountainken on February 07, 2017, 03:55:42 PM
just wondering how many people cast and tumble round ball? after reading an older article in Muzzleloader Mag comparing accuracy of tumbled, sprue left on and sprue trimmed I would like to try to tumble some.  what do you use to tumble? looks to be a rock tumbler can be had at a decent price but I would bet folks on here have some better ideas?
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: bob in the woods on February 07, 2017, 04:06:11 PM
Unless you are a bench rest shooter, I wouldn't bother.
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: snapper on February 07, 2017, 04:08:06 PM
Hornady uses a plastic barreled cement mixer with a dish towel thrown in.

Fleener
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: T*O*F on February 07, 2017, 07:05:29 PM
Quote
what do you use to tumble? looks to be a rock tumbler
I tried it years ago.  The weight of the balls was too much for my unit and it smoked the belt.
I wouldn't bother, but if you do a vibratory model might be the way to go.
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: hanshi on February 07, 2017, 09:12:27 PM
I usually do tumble cast ball.  It seems to make them more uniform to where they look like swaged ball.  Does it make them more accurate?  I seriously doubt it but I still do it.
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: EC121 on February 07, 2017, 09:54:38 PM
The only reason to tumble the balls would be for the convenience of loading without trying to properly position the sprue.  The ball starter will probably dent the ball some so tumbling is mostly for looks.
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: Daryl on February 07, 2017, 10:11:32 PM
I still see well enough to orient the sprue - Taylor says he doesn't bother with sprue orientation. I need every help I can, so I do it- usually. With tanner moulds, it is not necessary, as the sprue is removed by my wire stripper pliers with a twisting motion.
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: Standing Bear on February 08, 2017, 12:55:46 AM
I know no one who tumbles unless u count having read many of Hanshi's posts as mowing him
TC
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: Hungry Horse on February 08, 2017, 01:20:42 AM
I did years ago, I should have used the time on the range with the as cast balls. It was a total waste of time.

  Hungry Horse
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: longcruise on February 08, 2017, 01:54:14 AM
I've done it several times with a vibrating case cleaner.  Remove the cleaning media and spread the balls on the bottom in a single layer and not tight.  If you stack em you will get flat spots.

The only castings I've done it with were from a lee mold.  Don't remember how long they were vibrated either but when the came out they were perfectly round and the little flat sprue mark could not be found.

There was no difference in accuracy that was detectable.  I'm a bit anal about getting the sprue mark dead center on the top so they eliminated the need to do that.

All in all, probably won't bother to do it again.
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: adkmountainken on February 08, 2017, 03:44:56 PM
Fred Stutzenberger article in Muzzleloader May/June 2011 was a great piece on this subject and his findings after extensive range work with all 3 types of balls, tumbled, sprue left on and sprue trimmed.  4 page article that is worth the read.
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: Eddie Southgate on February 11, 2017, 08:31:29 PM
  Got a rock polishing kit for Christmas when I was 12 . Actually ended up getting two . My pap thought rolling a few balls around in one might be a good idea so we tried it . It worked and the sprue  was gone when we took them out . Never could tell any difference in how they shot so we quit doing it . I have since tried Hornady balls and they are no better to me than my own cast balls . I know those who disagree but that's my mileage .

  Eddie
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: hanshi on February 11, 2017, 09:42:15 PM
Tumbling ball is not any problem, at least for me.  I just take the cast ball, drop them into the tumbler (also have a vibrating one) and check back later.
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: Maineshops on February 12, 2017, 01:30:23 AM
About 50 yrs ago a fellow ml had a couple of plates that went in the drill press. The bottom was stationary and the top plate was driven. As i recall the top plate was beveled inward to the center of the disk.(convex). He threw a handful of balls in and spun them for a few seconds and it removed the screw. Any one have any details on that system?
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: adkmountainken on March 05, 2017, 09:18:57 PM
just picked up a 3 pound tumbler at Harbor Frieght with a 2 year warranty for $49 so I guess i'll be able todo my own range reports shortly.
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: Hungry Horse on March 05, 2017, 10:46:19 PM
I lied I do tumble the round balls I shoot in my trade gun. Not to smooth them, but to create small dents. I use a friends old paint shaker, and an empty paint can, or my saws all with an empty paint can. I just run it long enough to ding them up good.

  Hungry Horse
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: Marcruger on March 06, 2017, 01:10:29 AM
I read a detailed article that somewhat proved that tumbled roundballs (like golfballs) flew a bit better and were a fraction more accurate than plain balls. 

I also read that rolling balls between two plates of glass (several at a time) produced balls without sprue defects or mold lines. 

Just FYI.  Best wishes,   Marc
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: adkmountainken on March 06, 2017, 01:21:21 AM
Fred Stutzenberger article in Muzzleloader May/June 2011 was an excellent study.
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: Hungry Horse on March 06, 2017, 01:22:03 AM
IMO tumbling and rolling round balls to get them smooth and spite free is a waste of time. An old timer took my rejects and shot me into the dirt. I never rolled another ball. But, the undersized,dented, balls in a smoothbore is a whole different deal. It works.

  Hungry Horse
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: Mauser06 on March 06, 2017, 03:19:10 AM
When you tumble them in a vibratory tumbler, no media or anything??   Just balls?   

How long? 


Sounds like it's worth doing in smooth bores. Will be working on dialing in a smooth rifle soon and looking to gain all the edge I can.
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: Daryl on March 06, 2017, 03:21:49 AM
The tumbler have would really put a million (or less) flats on them without "some" layer of media.  Sounds like an idea, though - interesting.  Once it stops being winter here, I might try that. The machine makes too much noise for inside.
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: Hungry Horse on March 06, 2017, 10:46:20 AM
I do small batches ( like about twenty at a time) I run the shaker for about ten or fifteen minutes, and the sawsall for a little more. The sawsall doesn't run as fast as the paint shaker. I think a jigsaw would work as well.
 In my 20 gauge tradegun I load it with at least eighty grains of 2F, drop a bare dimpled .595 ball on top of the powder, and then run a wad cut from an old wool blanket down on top of the ball. I just barely dipped one side of the wad in hot bear grease, to soften the foulings.
 These shoot pretty straight until they start losing velocity. Once the velocity drops way off they start to wonder.

  Hungry Horse
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: Dphariss on March 08, 2017, 11:21:00 PM
It will pound the sprues down on .662 balls if they are pure lead (not if W-W alloy though too hard). But makes a horrid racket doing it and takes awhile. Not worth the trouble IMO.

Dan
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: Dphariss on March 08, 2017, 11:23:32 PM
When you tumble them in a vibratory tumbler, no media or anything??   Just balls?   

How long? 


Sounds like it's worth doing in smooth bores. Will be working on dialing in a smooth rifle soon and looking to gain all the edge I can.

Just the balls, don't want abrasives and other stuff pounded into them. The time? Until the sprues are gone. I use a large case tumbler or did.
Dan
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: Daryl on March 11, 2017, 09:34:18 PM
I'll have to try that- this spring or summer.  Still to cold to cast right now.
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: greyhawk on June 18, 2017, 05:17:56 PM
When you tumble them in a vibratory tumbler, no media or anything??   Just balls?   

How long? 

Yeah I tumble em - got LEE molds - use a heavy denium ball bag with a bit of graphite powder in - hold the bag one end each hand and rattle the balls round in there about a minute - they come out nice and shiney and will keep like that for ages - cant find the sprue mark at all - so ya can just load like swaged ball .
I keep that bag for doin it - just need a pinch of new graphite each time - e a s y !
Greyhawk

Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: Ludo Van den Bussche on October 09, 2017, 11:17:44 PM
I throw the balls in a tin tobacco box and shake that vigorously for a few minutes ... that's enough to take out the sprue... I also used a small canvas bag that I shook and ruffled about between my two hands ... A bit more work to get a result but you do not have the noise...
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: walks with gun on October 10, 2017, 05:03:04 PM
   I have one wrecked leg so I walk like a paint shaker and stumble from time to time,  this is as much tumbling as they ever needed.
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: Treebeard on October 10, 2017, 06:54:17 PM
For a while I shot smoothbore competition in NSSA shoots and my experience both personal and observed was that dimples made a real improvement in accruracy at ranges of 25 and 50 yards.
Title: Re: how many "tumble" round ball after cast?
Post by: smokinbuck on October 10, 2017, 08:45:36 PM
I just cast weigh and shoot, no problem. I have heard of a fellow that put a bunch of cast balls into a couple of paint cans and left them in his car trunk while he drove around town for a couple of days ????
Mark