AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: Tizzy on July 16, 2017, 12:40:04 AM
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I picked up this rifle from a gun shop in Denver NC. I am looking for any information anyone might have about the rifle and it's builder, which I presume to be S. Forke as it is stamped on the barrel. Here are a few basic measurements that I hope will be helpful...
OAL-49"
LOP: 14"
Weight: 11lbs approx. (bathroom scale)
Barrel- Apparently made by Postely and Nelson Co. 34" length/ 1 1/16" at breach and muzzle/ 7/16" across flats
Caliber: .43 approx.
Rifling: 1-52" 4 lands and grooves
Butt Plate: Height-4 1/4"
Width-1 3/4"
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FiT31Cv%2F16.jpg&hash=fbc3313558aa5815b05784619f084bb399eea3ef) (http://ibb.co/b0WA5F)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FdkvWCv%2FIMG_2929.jpg&hash=c5671e0509d684474c296c627bd85e10e44d9faf) (http://ibb.co/i90ysv)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FjE3F5F%2FIMG_2933.jpg&hash=898d3b3a566c8b3151fbdf3c537ff8f3617a563c) (http://ibb.co/kWDtsv)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FciyRCv%2FIMG_2936.jpg&hash=a74682d1c56b70da095faab348fc5f08fd4e0acc) (http://ibb.co/kxo4za)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fh7MPza%2FIMG_2939.jpg&hash=74d8ad2cced3bc238b4d58b143a64298b7b4d378) (http://ibb.co/jfxxKa)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FcthEza%2FIMG_2940.jpg&hash=b1e4a4771c7df9e9f454596e5650613d38b5bcb5) (http://ibb.co/m8FZza)
easy photo upload (http://imgbb.com/)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fn94isv%2FIMG_2942.jpg&hash=e497fb069a68b8cba0b2bbbfe926cfec0fb2ffb0) (http://ibb.co/mbT9Xv)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FihPBea%2FIMG_2944.jpg&hash=f7ea4c2d8e93b5a564bac3a95520f9df9920737f) (http://ibb.co/gexmCv)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2Fj0UNkF%2FIMG_2946.jpg&hash=f56e2d252065adfd3b5a64e6fceaefd77ac85917) (http://ibb.co/h5kv5F)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FiWxYQF%2F15.jpg&hash=c53597cb79088089ff1fdb05141509e0f8df1f7e) (http://ibb.co/ch0WCv)
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Tizzy:
Nice looking percussion rifle. Frank Sellers "American Gunsmiths" lists Samuel Forker in Meadville, Pa. Sellers also lists "Postley, Nelson & Co." as barrel and lock makers in Pittsburgh, Pa.
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While I can not say anything about the pedigree of the rifle I can say that as far as my experiences go, that this is the tightest tiger stripe I have ever seen. Beautiful and congratulations upon you.
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I too have a mid- 1800's squirrel rifle in .32 cal. that is marked Postley near the muzzle. Maybe the rest of the marking was cut off. Mine has the four lands and grooves also and the bore is in very good condition. Interesting that they chose to go with 4. James Levy
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:o :o... Great looking rifle... !!! .... beautiful stripe in wood... AND the finish all builders strive for .... congrats,..nice find... !!!
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Thanks for the comments everyone! Steve, thanks for giving me the makers first name, which led me to discover the following information about the builder.
In Kauffman's The Pennsylvania-Kentucky Rifle I discovered,
Samuel Forker was born in Brownsville PA on 25 November, 1798. He settled in Meadville PA in 1828 where he built firearms. He was a county commissioner in his later years and died in 1860. He was granted a patent for an "improvement in firearms," relating to a design in which four loads could be discharged in rapid succession from a single piece.
He was the father of W.H. Forker, who also maintained the gun maker trade.
With the above information, and looking at the piece....would anyone dare to take a stab at the approximate dating of the rifle? This is my first original, and I'm quite excited!
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Here's another rifle by Forker. Notice anything odd about the stripes?
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FnLjtsv%2FIMG_0468.jpg&hash=0990e781d8927af4e823d0b6399beb1f7b4ce4a1) (http://ibb.co/bt0Bea)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FgNP4za%2FIMG_0470_2.jpg&hash=2523eab35efde6219dc428165e7713e7999b0b7b) (http://ibb.co/fqoWea)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreview.ibb.co%2FibY8QF%2FIMG_0469.jpg&hash=644f83e1c854afbb928345d488b0852a466c517e) (http://ibb.co/j1Rjza)
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JDM, call me crazy... but that rifle seems to be made with the sister stock from my rifle, only the stock was reversed so that the angle of the stripe slants in the opposite direction. The spacing of the curl seems nearly the same. That, or maybe Forke had a great supply of exceptional wood. Whatever is the case, that is a beautiful rifle and I appreciate you posting the photos! The funny thing is, I purchased the rifle for little more than it would cost to purchase a stock of similar figure today. The store employee even thought the rifle was overpriced....lol. :)
There are many interesting points to be examined by looking at the architecture of your rifle compared to mine. Any idea as to the date he made your rifle? I am interested to discover if Forke's rifle architecture differed from full stock to half stock, or if in later years he changed his style.
After some further research I found that the makers of the rifle's barrel, "Postley, Nelson & Co.," were in operation from 1852-1875. S.Forke died in 1860, so that means that the making of my rifle occurred during an 8 year window,(1852-1860.) This also means that he would have been between the age of 54-62 when he built the rifle.
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The stripes appear to be perpendicular to the top/straight edges? (Forearm and stock comb.)
Painted on??
Cheers,
Smoketown
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Bingo !!! Smoketown! The stripes are painted on.
Tizzy, I'm guessing it was made in the 1850's . He died in 1860. It might go as early as 1845 but I think that is very unlikely. Just my guess you understand. I don't know much information on Mr. Forker other than the sources you have mentioned. These to rifles put me in the mind of Henry Leman . That is probably why I like them. Mine is a 45 cal. If you get a chance take a look at the top of the trigger on yours. Mine is stamped S. Forker on the trigger. I've never seen that anywhere else before.
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Looking at your rifle JDM I never would have guessed the stripes we're painted on. I must admit, Forker fooled me, and must have been the Rembrandt of the stocker trade. Lol. When you say to look at the top of the trigger, do you mean the top of the trigger plate?
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Post let Nelson was in business in the mid 1850s
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[quote author=Tizzy l Lol. When you say to look at the top of the trigger, do you mean the top of the trigger plate?
Yes flip the gun upside down .Mine is stamped on the outside of the trigger plate. Sorry for the confusion.
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Unfortunately, there is no name imprinted on the trigger plate. JDM, out of curiosity, does the lock on your rifle say "Bell London"?
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Tizzy:
I would agree with JDM that your rifle was probably made in the 1850's.
A couple of weeks ago, I came across an S. Forker fullstock rifle with 4 groove rifling.
For your first antique rifle, you have a very nice example of a mid-19th century 1/2 stock percussion rifle with maker's name and barrel maker's name.
Good find.
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JDM, I wouldn't jump so fast to call those stripes "painted on" just because of their orientation. I'd want to have it in my hand and see if the curl moves in the light.
There are makers today who orient the stock curl either perpendicular to the barrel, or perpendicular to the comb (parallel to the buttplate). I am guessing some use the wrist grain to help make that determination.
Also, in the worn areas, I am still seeing curl. I'd kind of expect to see it disappear in those areas if painted on.
Just my two cents worth. Best wishes, Marc
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Are you planning to shoot it?
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JDM, I wouldn't jump so fast to call those stripes "painted on" just because of their orientation. I'd want to have it in my hand and see if the curl moves in the light.
There are makers today who orient the stock curl either perpendicular to the barrel, or perpendicular to the comb (parallel to the buttplate). I am guessing some use the wrist grain to help make that determination.
Also, in the worn areas, I am still seeing curl. I'd kind of expect to see it disappear in those areas if painted on.
Just my two cents worth. Best wishes, Marc
I don't know about his but I'm sure about mine. It's the second one pictured. Jim
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While I do not feel that JDM was attempting to state the stripes on my rifle we're painted on, and was mearly pointing to the similarity of the two, and the stripes painting techniques utilized by Lehman; I can state with certainty the curl on my half stock is authentic. I have pulled the barrel, and the curl exists in the channel. Additionally, you can run your hands across the stock and actually feel the curl...kind of hard to explain. Treebeard...at the risk of making others cringe at the statement....yes, I do plan on shooting her...and I already have.😁 I scoped the bore prior to shooting and felt it was in good enough condition to fire.
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Tizzy's gun appears to be a restock. The lack of definition around the lock mortise, and the thick wrist, do not conform with the other rifle. It may very well have been half stocked at this time as well.
The four lands, and grooves may look odd to us, but they shoot well. Dixie Gun Works sold a cut rifled barrel years ago in this configuration, I rebarreled a CVA Kentucky with one, and it shot great.
Hungry Horse
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I would suggest that Tizzy's gun has just been refinished, not necessarily restocked. That's how the lock mortises got rounded off. I rescued a bona fide Westley Richards percussion shotgun that a coworker had "refinished". The lock mortises were completely removed.
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Nice looking guns. I live in Meadville and have been trying to aquire a Forker rifle for a while. While I know where a couple are none are for sale. If you guys ever run into one that is please let me know. Thx
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Spuere66:
PM sent.