AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: OldMtnMan on January 12, 2018, 09:43:45 PM
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For a kit I plan on buying in the future it has a Rice barrel. I went to their web site and was reading the do's and don't's with his barrel.
Here's one i'm copy/pasting that I can't figure out. It has no explanation about why. What do you think?
DO NOT:
Short start the patched ball.
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"Don't short start the patched ball"...without pushing it to rest firmly on the powder with your ramrod. If you forget the last part, and fire the rifle, you'll at very least, ring your barrel, and at worst, cause it to rupture. A rung barrel is not necessarily the end of the world either. My Virginia rifle has a swollen spot, barely perceptible when cleaning, caused by a newbie using my rifle on loan. It has not diminished its accuracy in the least, but is annoying knowing that it is there.
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Oh ok. I thought those were two separate things he wanted done. I couldn't figure out why he didn't want a short starter used.
Makes sense now. Thanks.
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Personally, I think any barrel worth it's salt ought to be able to withstand being fired with a short started ball numerous times without damage,
Otherwise, What good is it? I wouldn't buy a barrel that won't meet this criteria.
I've got better things to do than replace my barrel every week or so.
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It's quite easy Redheart, ensure the ball is seated properly and you won't Have to replace any barrels, or fingers or whatever. :-)
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Taylor, I had the same thing happen with my Virginia rifle; hardly noticeable but there just the same. Couldn't tell from the outside but a tight patch would tell you it had a swollen ring 2/3 down the barrel. Still it would make one hole groups out beyond 60 yards just like always. Hmmm...6 degrees of sep....
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"Don't short start the patched ball"...without pushing it to rest firmly on the powder with your ramrod. If you forget the last part, and fire the rifle, you'll at very least, ring your barrel, and at worst, cause it to rupture. A rung barrel is not necessarily the end of the world either. My Virginia rifle has a swollen spot, barely perceptible when cleaning, caused by a newbie using my rifle on loan. It has not diminished its accuracy in the least, but is annoying knowing that it is there.
D.,
It sounds like you have the perfect rifle now because perhaps the ring in the bore will provide a pressure relief for the next time you fire a short started ball.
I think you builders should offer this as an option for idiots like me that talk too much while they're loading. :)
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It's quite easy Redheart, ensure the ball is seated properly and you won't Have to replace any barrels, or fingers or whatever. :-)
Thanks Pukka,
Do you have any advice that will help me to remember to do this? ;)
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Acer Saccharrum posted images of a barrel he had short started and fired without seating the ball. It was ruptured and though no one was hurt, there's a lesson here. That is why one should NEVER short start a ball without seating it properly on the powder. If you are doing this on a regular basis and surviving, I don't want to shoot next to you.
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Acer Saccharrum posted images of a barrel he had short started and fired without seating the ball. It was ruptured and though no one was hurt, there's a lesson here. That is why one should NEVER short start a ball without seating it properly on the powder. If you are doing this on a regular basis and surviving, I don't want to shoot next to you.
Thanks Taylor,
Honestly I wouldn't want to shoot next to myself either, and I like you too much to allow you to be within a 500 yd. radius of me when I'm shooting.
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I have a voice programmed in my brain that tells me the ramrod is the last thing I use when loading. It screams at me if I screw up.
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I have a voice programmed in my brain that tells me the ramrod is the last thing I use when loading. It screams at me if I screw up.
All kidding aside. So have I. I had fired a short started ball three times in about a six month period and said to myself Wow!!! you better get your act together or someone' going to die and it's going be your fault. Just thinking about that seems to have put that warning into my thick head.
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I was being serious. It doesn't scream at me, but I have a weird feeling that something is wrong. Then I start to focus again.
Shooting ranges are the worst for me. Too many distractions. I enjoy solo woods walks better.
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It's quite easy Redheart, ensure the ball is seated properly and you won't Have to replace any barrels, or fingers or whatever. :-)
Thanks Pukka,
Do you have any advice that will help me to remember to do this? ;)
Only thing I can think of is tie a knot in your barrel, Redheart! ;)
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As has been discussed/debated/argued before, a short starter isn't truly necessary...
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Can someone help me out here? How in the heck do you get do not short start the patched ball out of a unseated ball. I can see where OldMtnMan got confused. Terrible use of terminology. Why would they not just say don't shoot a unseated ball?
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Acer Saccharrum posted images of a barrel he had short started and fired without seating the ball. It was ruptured and though no one was hurt, there's a lesson here. That is why one should NEVER short start a ball without seating it properly on the powder. If you are doing this on a regular basis and surviving, I don't want to shoot next to you.
Taylor, one thing I remember Acer saying was that the short starter he used placed the ball on or very near a dovetail. When I read this I looked over my short starters and made sure mine would not put the ball near a dovetail.
Regards,
Pletch
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Sounds like I should inlay some color coded bands into my RR......
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How much p[owder is being used to "ring" these barrels? Or burst them.
Perhaps that is one of the reasons they are damaged if short started by mistake.
I can say I have seen it done more than a few times and never was aware of any damage? Of course most folks where I shoot use pretty lite loads
I only use 75gr 2F in my 54 swamped barrel even when hunting?
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Get your head in the game and pay attention to what you are doing and you wont short start and forget to seat the ball on the powder.Attention to detail,simple as that.
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Get your head in the game and pay attention to what you are doing and you wont short start and forget to seat the ball on the powder.Attention to detail,simple as that.
Concentrate. There should be a space after a period and comma. ;D
Sorry, I had to bust your chops a little.
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I've short started my barrel several times, back when I first started shooting it, without apparent damage. I've always used pretty light charges (50g FFg in .50) , though, as the rear dovetail is just a hair deeper than I'm happy with (though safe enough, according to an experienced smith I showed it to).
Next gun and setup I make, I'm either going to find a load/crown combination that doesn't need a short starter to shoot well, or use a knife handle to start the ball a la Audubon's description of D. Boone's loading technique. I suspect that it would be a lot harder to forget to ram the ball if it is sitting right at the muzzle....Personally, I like the idea of shooting a muzzleloader in a way conducive to doing so under stress, or when exhausted, or cold and hungry - pretty normal conditions for frontier marksmanship - but I have a family that reminds me from time to time that I am a nut.
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Forgetting things, Yep. been there and done it!
Had a 16 bore flowing piece in the workshop one time. Thought I'd try it for sparks.
Yes, I'd forgotten it was loaded, And yes, it Did go off. I know, Always leave rammer in a barrel left loaded. What I Know and Do aren't always the same.
Above gun didn't need any priming either....not That time. Heavy oak plank caught the charge though.
R.
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With a loaded gun, I put a leather plug between hammer and nipple, or masking tape on the frizzen. That was KNOW the gun is loaded, if sitting with it's buddies in the safe.
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Daryl,
The old 18th/19th way was always leave the ramrod in the bore. That was an international sign, but Did I? Not that time!
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Goo wrote, "perhaps I should put marks on my ram rods," to let him know when a ball is seated. I am sure we have all done this at lease once...dry balled.So, I have two marks on my ram rods. One indicating where the bottom of the chamber is ( with a cleaning jag on the rod) and one indicating a ball seated on my minimum powder charge. I simply admit that I get distracted and some times do a dry ball. If someone starts to talk to me when I am loading, I ask them to hold off till I'm done...sometimes a bit snappy. Oh yes, I use stainless Steel rods, and always have a muzzle guard.
This leads to what do I do when I have dry balled. I use a CO2 ejector. I have found that with a long rifle, I need to clean any fouling out of the barrel to get the ball all of the way out of the bore. Fouling can make the ball stop about 3/4 of the way up the barrel.
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John, I have done the same thing. When i only had two flintlocks I could tell just by looking at the RR if everything was normal but now after acquiring a few more Flintlocks, I have started marking all my ramrods. I have never short started or not seated a ball yet and don't want to start now.
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Daryl,
The old 18th/19th way was always leave the ramrod in the bore. That was an international sign, but Did I? Not that time!
Watch out Pukka. With your luck you're going to end up shooting out your ramrod. ;)
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Yep!!
LOL!
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Too easy for a rod to be removed and replaced, perhaps. With the tape on a frizzen, that's a dead giveaway, or so it would seem.
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Daryl,
You know what happens when we make something "Foolproof" don't you! ;)
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Yes! I'm an expert in making something foolproof...........unfoolproof.