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General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: alacran on September 13, 2018, 08:31:28 PM

Title: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: alacran on September 13, 2018, 08:31:28 PM
The NMLRA's board of directors  for the second time this year, voted this week to terminate the Western National Shoot in Phoenix.
Like a Phoenix the shoot has been resurrected as the Arizona Western Independent National Shoot or AZWINS.
Mr. Bill Loughrige will be ramrodding this event.  He has been running the Phoenix end of the now defunct Western Nationals for at least  the past ten years.
The International Long range championship will be part of the venue. The British team has already indicated that they will attend. The Ben Avery Range in Phoenix boasts a 1000 yard range.
There will be  primitive events , bench and cross sticks, offhand events, pistol as well as primitive archery.
The event fees will be $60.00 pre registered. $70.00 for at the door entries. These fees will cover all events, which you may wish to shoot.
AZWINS will be held at the Ben Avery facility in Phoenix from February 24 to March 4th 2019.
There will be a website for the event which should be up and running within the next couple of weeks.
As soon as it is up and running I will post it.
This is the first broadside re the event and I will keep every one posted
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: Mike Brooks on September 14, 2018, 01:35:49 AM
My brother lives 4 miles from the Ben Avery range, maybe I should go...
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: smallpatch on September 14, 2018, 02:13:49 AM
You really should Mike. 
Then we'd all have a reason to attend again.  It's a long way from Iowa.  And the weather much warmer.
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: alacran on September 14, 2018, 03:10:43 AM
Mike.
 I just joined the ALR this spring. I had been lurking here for about three years before that.  One of the reasons I joined is because I usually get a kick out of what you have to say. It would be really great to meet you. So  I urge you to come. I will be there doing whatever has to be done to make it a success. I forgot to mention that we have the only Olympic quality Running Boar set up that's available to the public.
Hopefully I'll be able to shoot one match so I can say that I shot at the first ever AZWINS.
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: T*O*F on September 14, 2018, 03:36:23 AM
Quote
Mr. Bill Loughrige will be ramrodding this event.  He has been running the Phoenix end of the now defunct Western Nationals for at least  the past ten years.
Who will be providing the "front money" to put this event on and who will stand the loss if it fails.  I've heard it was cancelled due to losses approaching $8k per event.
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: sespe on September 14, 2018, 04:17:38 AM
We usually send a small group from out west.  If Mike shows, I'll have to attend for sure!
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: alacran on September 14, 2018, 05:01:31 AM
Quote
Mr. Bill Loughrige will be ramrodding this event.  He has been running the Phoenix end of the now defunct Western Nationals for at least  the past ten years.
Who will be providing the "front money" to put this event on and who will stand the loss if it fails.  I've heard it was cancelled due to losses approaching $8k per event.
Well it didn't take long for negativity to come out on this subject.
I am not going to go into recriminations over why the NMLRA losses money.
They had a go at it for over twenty years and their day is done.
With all due respect, where the " seed money" comes from or who stands to lose, is none of your concern . It is Mr. Loghrige's concern.
The NMLRA financial problems are not going to end by the cancelling of the Western Nationals.
We are going to have a shoot. We have volunteers ready to step in to make this event happen.
We are planning on success.
For those who have never been to the now defunct Western Nationals. You will be in for a treat. The Ben Avery range is a World Class facility. It is one of the premier ranges in the United States.
I will end this post by quoting a line from one the late Jim Morrison's song "The West is the best , you get here and we will do the rest"
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: smallpatch on September 14, 2018, 09:26:45 AM
Nicely done Guido!
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: R.I.J. on September 14, 2018, 02:10:28 PM
I had the pleasure of attending this shoot 12 yrs ago. Totally mind blowing range! I would encourage anyone to make this a "winter get away' trip. My bet is that a smaller dedicated sponsor with less overhead will make this a great event. Best of luck.
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: snapper on September 14, 2018, 03:47:58 PM
Alacran

I dont think TOF's questions were negative.  Just simple questions.

Fleener
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: T*O*F on September 14, 2018, 03:56:37 PM
Quote
Well it didn't take long for negativity to come out on this subject.
There was nothing negative about my questions and they are legitimate concerns.  In the past, I have been involved in large scale events put on by volunteers and money has always been the chief concern.  Had we not had an organization to front the money until after the event was over, these events would not have happened.  I have also seen events fail because of the efforts of a single person, and invariably someone gets screwed.

The logistics of such an event is phenomenal.  Without the assistance of a large cadre of dedicated volunteers the event won't happen.  They are required not only for the long range planning, but also for the mundane jobs like manning the ranges, parking, camping, registration, etc.  Hidden expenses like advertising, event insurance, adequate porta potties, security, EMT's on hand for medical emergencies, etc. etc, etc.  It always comes down to people and money.   Any person who desires to lend his support to an event would want to know these things.
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: chubby on September 14, 2018, 04:59:27 PM
TOF I feel your question was with real concern, when these kind of events happen when they do not work is a loss for all of us!! I think the negativity came in the quote  back to you! I have been doing shoots and events since 1974, some clubs and events come and go. Keep up the positive and concern thinking!!  Chubby :) :)
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: little joe on September 14, 2018, 06:26:22 PM
Quote
Mr. Bill Loughrige will be ramrodding this event.  He has been running the Phoenix end of the now defunct Western Nationals for at least  the past ten years.
Who will be providing the "front money" to put this event on and who will stand the loss if it fails.  I've heard it was cancelled due to losses approaching $8k per event.
The 8k loss was most likely what it cost them to send there 3-4 folks there.
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: smallpatch on September 14, 2018, 06:57:38 PM
As usual, being the "red headed step child", it seems that we out west are subjected to the reasoning of folks in the East.
Why the attacks on someone who's trying to keep up a tradition that the current organization seems to be unable maintain.
I guess time will tell, but those planning this are quite capable folk,  let's give them a chance.
If it doesn't work, you'll be able to rightly say "nanner, nanner.
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: snapper on September 14, 2018, 09:02:46 PM
It would be nice to simply get back to discussing the topic, no one made any comments that should of been taken as negative and TOF clarified that.  Unruffle the feathers.   I think it is safe to assume that everyone on this forum hopes that the match is a huge success.


Looking forward to seeing more details of the shoot.

I dont know if I will make it or not, it is a long ways to AZ from Iowa, and the Oakridge TN match is just a few weeks from this match.

It is all about time and money.   I wont be retired by then....

If I had to share a ride with Mike Brooks I am not sure who's life would be changed. ;D



Fleener
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: Dennis Glazener on September 14, 2018, 09:49:28 PM
Ok lets get away from the East/West NBRSA/Local discussions or this topic will be locked or removed!
Dennis
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: Don Steele on September 14, 2018, 11:49:43 PM
Alacran,
Thank you for letting us know about a match in February being held on the Ben Avery range grounds. I’m looking forward to seeing the website for the event when it is up and running. As a potential participant I would also be interested to know what vendors are committing to attend. Part of my enjoyment at our shooting events comes from shopping and talking to vendors.
As things come together, I hope you’ll keep us in the loop.
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: smallpatch on September 15, 2018, 02:18:38 AM
Sorry for any negativity I have added to this topic!
As you can tell, this is a touchy subject for those of us out west.
Again, I am sorry..... I don't want to detract from the good news.
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: Craig Wilcox on September 15, 2018, 06:34:45 PM
I will do my best to get to Phoenix and compete in this event.  And will volunteer my services for any place I can help out.

I was in Phoenix in February '07, and it was delightful - nice weather, not too overrun with snowbirds.  Will be a pleasure to experience once again.

Hmmmm.  Wonder if I can talk my old GF into accompanying me???  Probably not, as she has her eye on driving in the Rolex 24 at Daytona at that time frame.

Look forward to meeting a few of you there - and like Smallpatch said, it is a  long way from Ohio!
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: crankshaft on September 20, 2018, 08:47:20 PM

 I have been a NMLRA member for mucho years. 
 It is a great org.,   if you live in Indiana. 
 Not so much if you have to drive a long time to get  there.
Those Indiana guys should experience  driving for a full day or two or more to shoot.
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: smylee grouch on September 21, 2018, 02:46:17 AM
Just got word the new shoot is being planed out right now. Some donations I think have already been pledged as well as a rifle for a benefit auction or raffel. Gun made by an ALR member I think.  :)
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: alacran on September 21, 2018, 04:47:31 PM
Just got word the new shoot is being planed out right now. Some donations I think have already been pledged as well as a rifle for a benefit auction or raffel. Gun made by an ALR member I think.  :)
The Arizona Winter Independent National Shoot , now has a website:  azmuzzleloading.com 
I checked it out yesterday after Bill Loughride informed me about it.
There is a rifle raffle in the works, I donated the rifle . I will post pictures of the rifle  on the gun building section today.
I will not give details  of the raffle, since I do not know what they will be. That is out of my hands.
Please check out the website. It has all the information that is currently concrete.
A flier is being finalized and I will submit it to Dennis Glazener once it is completed.
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: Ky-Flinter on September 21, 2018, 07:56:13 PM
I corrected the website address in the above reply.

-Ron
ALR Moderator
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: snapper on December 04, 2018, 08:18:18 PM
I was just at the website looking for dates and events.  None listed that I can find.   

I assume that the matches are still being planned to be held?  Only a couple of months away and nothing of use on the website.

Hard to look at or plan on going with no info.

Fleener
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: Dennis Glazener on December 04, 2018, 08:45:35 PM
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=51564.0
How about this?
Dennis
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: smylee grouch on December 04, 2018, 09:24:11 PM
A little more info would be nice. I wonder if the long range matches dont start on the first day of shooting and not during the middle of the weeks as was done last year. Might be worth while to call Bill and find out for sure if anyone is into the 1000 yd. matches.   :)
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: snapper on December 04, 2018, 09:47:51 PM
Dennis

Thanks, I have seen that.  However it does not really tell me much. 

Fleener
Title: Re: Western National Shoot R.I.P.
Post by: John Ciccone on December 05, 2018, 06:33:07 AM
Last year I shot at the NMLRA western nationals. It was fantastic!  I shoot international with the US international Muzzleloading Team, (USIMLT) so I shot a bunch of pistol events including some in the International target. The next couple of days, the USIMLT had it's long range match. It brought shooters from Australia, New Zealand and all over. The NRA also had a long range cartridge match. In all 11 straight days of blackbowder shooting.

And the Ben Avery range is MAGNIFICENT! Great facility. Great people. But this year, I will go to Oak Ridge instead for my long range. As there is no NMLRA, no pistol. And the match is too early in the year for Snowbound shooters like me to get up to snuff.

Finally, cost. There is more shooting back here on the East coast that begins a bit later and is nearer.

But!!! If you are within striking distance GO. It will be a great match with great people at one of the premier shooting facilities in the the US.

Bring your own powder!!!! They do not sell it at the range! And Black powder cannot be sold in Phoenix city limits! Check with the match director well better the match. There is a dealer outside city limits who does sell powder and caps, BUT you must call a day or so before so he can bring it in from his powder magazine!!!!!!!