AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: nemovir on January 16, 2019, 11:57:18 PM
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Does any one have any issues using .315 rd ball?
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I'm using a .310 ball and pillow ticking ( .015) and have a tight fit with spit lube - hard to start with the ramrod-really need a short starter. This is with a rice 46 inch barrel.
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Sry - didn't have a Rice barrel, but did have a barrel with reverse width rifling. The grooves were very narrow with wide lands, much like original barrels. Even so, I used .311" RB's from a Lee mould, to start with, then switched to .320" from a .319" Lee mould, both with .022" to .0235" patches. It was very easy loading, oft demonstrated to Taylor on the trail, how only needing 2 fingers on the rod to seat the patched ball, whether using milk oil or water based lube. No wiping nor swabbing needed. When using mink oil, the 50th shot loaded easier than the first. I can only assume this was because the first was wiping the week-old film of WD40 down when seated and the 'oils' were not compatible. After the first, loading was noticeably easier, even though the first one was also quite easy. This barrel, like all my others, does not build fouling and never needs cleaning while shooting.
I do have a .36cal. Rice barrel. It is even easier loading, if that is possible. but I do use a .350" ball in it, along with the thick patches and short starter.
Pressing on the patched ball with the short starter knub, forms the ball into the bore. No hitting is needed. choking up on the 5/16" hickory rod will do the same thing. The starter is not needed, just handier as I've been using one since 1972.
I always use DEAD-SOFT lead, no alloys. I tried Hornady's 0 buck and it measured .320" and was too hard (3 to 5% antimony as advertized) to load easily.
The # buck might have been 00 - like I said, it measured .320"
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I have a Rice .32 Southe n classic. I cast my own 0 buck. It measures out at .320. With a .020 patch, it loads like a breeze. Moose milk as a lube of course.
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Sounds like it luck of the draw. Reason I am asking is that I have a lot of.315 ball due to my Pedersoli Scout. I have on order a Kibler SMR in .32. In reading the multiple posts, it seems Rice barrel bore run small.
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I shoot .310s in my Rice 46" barrel, with a .012 patch they load very easily so I am sure a .315 would work OK.
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No issues with .315 or .319 and .017-.018 patch with Mink Oil or Ballistol/water 50:50. I should note that this Rice barrel has "round" grooves and narrow lands. I do use a starter. Bore diameter measured with small hole gauge measures .320.
J.B.
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I've used probably 20 or more of their barrels. Haven't noticed any running small.
They are finished nerdy smoothly inside, and require no break in to speak of. First shot is usually right on. First seven rounds out of a brand new barrel.
(https://i.ibb.co/dWpPYTK/IMG-0402.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f1Nkwg0)
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I have a Rice radius groove .32 "transition" barrel. I cast .311" ball from a Lee mold. I load these with a .024" canvas patch lubed with TOW mink oil or Hoppes BP Lube. This combo loads so easily that a .315" or .319" should prove to be no problem.
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Sounds like it luck of the draw. Reason I am asking is that I have a lot of.315 ball due to my Pedersoli Scout. I have on order a Kibler SMR in .32. In reading the multiple posts, it seems Rice barrel bore run small.
I have never heard of a small bore in a Rice Barrel - any calibre.
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Does any one have any issues using .315 rd ball?
How much use has the barrel seen?
Mike
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Does any one have any issues using .315 rd ball?
How much use has the barrel seen?
Mike
I haven’t received it yet. Pedersoli recommends .315 for their .32. Reading past posts implies that using balls larger than .311 is a hassle for Rice Barrels. I wanted to check with you all to see if that was the case.
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I have a .32 Rice barrel on my SMR (not a Kibler kit) and getting.315 balls down it with even a thin patch was a problem. I switched to .310 as I really do not like to have to beat the ball in.
Dave
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I'm using a .310 ball and pillow ticking ( .015) and have a tight fit with spit lube - hard to start with the ramrod-really need a short starter. This is with a rice 46 inch barrel.
rechecked my ticking and new reading is .019 -anyway somewhere between .015 and .019. Still a tight fit requiring two handed push with ramrod after stating ball flush with knife handle. Also using Hornady .310 balls. Flat lands in a SMR Kibler. Checking with caliber is tightening it tight on ticking if this is correct.
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You guys have WAYYYY different experience with Rice 32s than me. I have a Southern classic that I use a .320 ball and .020 patch with no hammering. Short starter and ramrod is all.
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You guys have WAYYYY different experience with Rice 32s than me. I have a Southern classic that I use a .320 ball and .020 patch with no hammering. Short starter and ramrod is all.
I can tell you one thing, you could never get that patch/ball combo down the 2 Rice 32 cal barrels I had. It was all I could do to get a .315 ball and .015 patching seated. I changed to .310 balls and .015 patch for both. They were both radius rifling and would shoot ragged 1 hole groups at 30 yards from a rest.
Denniis
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You guys have WAYYYY different experience with Rice 32s than me. I have a Southern classic that I use a .320 ball and .020 patch with no hammering. Short starter and ramrod is all.
I used the same ball and patching, smallpatch, when using .320" and the 10oz denim or mattress ticking at .0235". I used the same patches in my .40, with a .400" ball.
I found, using the little nub on my short starter, I could simply push the patched ball into the muzzle. I would then push it down about 6", either with the short starter's shaft, or choked up ram rod, then down the rest of the way, only needing 2 fingers on the rod.
I guess we need to do another video, but this one will be with my Rice .36 bl. I had ordered a .32, but Jason sent a .36 instead. Too much hassle across international borders to exchange it, so
I had Taylor simply put it on my mtn. rifle stock.
Perhaps my fingers are stronger than some? I have done this many times on the trail as we discuss and attempt to understand why some guys have trouble seating patched round balls. About all of us use a .005" under bore size ball along with .020" to .0235" denim patch. As that particular mattress ticking material is hard to find and only a couple of us have any, some guys have switched to 8, 10 or 12 oz. denim. The .008" runs .019 to .020" crushed, depending on the calipers.
Again, the muzzle crown shape, makes a big difference.
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I got my SMR last week. Some body must have sat on the wood box. it was cracked in two with the thin plywood top keeping it from coming apart, but there was not damage to the rifle itself. I drop a .315 bare ball in the barrel. it got stuck toward the bottom. Used co2 to get it out. Look like I going to have to stock up on .310 balls for her.
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Must have been the sprue that made it hang up?
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Sounds like it luck of the draw. Reason I am asking is that I have a lot of.315 ball due to my Pedersoli Scout. I have on order a Kibler SMR in .32. In reading the multiple posts, it seems Rice barrel bore run small.
.315 ball's were too tight to load in my last 32 which had radius rifling. I used .018 pillow ticking with .310 ball. It loaded very easily and would shoot 1 ragged 5 shot hole at 30 yards from a bench rest.
Dennus
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You guys have WAYYYY different experience with Rice 32s than me. I have a Southern classic that I use a .320 ball and .020 patch with no hammering. Short starter and ramrod is all.
On the last Rice 32 I seriously doubt that you could have used a hammer to get that ball patch combo down that barrel. Had to pound on short starter to start a .315 Hornady ball started using .018 patch, then it took both hands and some hard pushing to seat the ball using LHV lube.
Dennis
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Must have been the sprue that made it hang up?
Nope it was Hornady® 32 Cal .315 Lead Balls
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Now, I can sometimes seat the .311" ball and .024" patch down my Rice barrel just using two fingers but usually not. Arthritis has weakened my hands to the point I can't twist the top off those plastic water bottles without using a "grip adapter". So if I can seat a prb at all, it would cause most shooters no problem using two fingers. I have two Rice rb barrels and they are crazy smooth.
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I am going to try a .300 ball and a .020 patch in the next few days. Will see how that works.
Dave
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Sounds like it luck of the draw. Reason I am asking is that I have a lot of.315 ball due to my Pedersoli Scout. I have on order a Kibler SMR in .32. In reading the multiple posts, it seems Rice barrel bore run small.
What needs to happen is to measure the dang thing. Use an oversized ball - .36 or .40 o r.45- and pound it into the muzzle, Run an 1/8th inch drill into it a ways, run in a size 6 or 78 screw and pull that sucker out and measure it. Groove to groove on that slug will give the bore size, land ot land will give the groove diameter. The difference divided by 2 will give you the groove depth - which is what everyone should know about their rifle barrels, in order to feed them correctly.
It is MOST highly unlikely Rice barrels are undersize. Seems to me, they use an ironing button on the bores after rifling. I've heard of other makers doing that as well. If Jason was on this site, he could verify that for us. If they indeed use an ironing button on the lands, they it is impossible for that bore to be tight. I have a .36 Rice barrel that measures exactly .360" bore with a .376" groove diameter thus it has .008" rifling- perfect for it's 48" rate of twist.
I've never heard of Rice making undersized bores, other that someone using that as an excuse for having difficulty loading combinations suggested by more seasoned shooters.
Please measure it and know for sure.
Once we know what the situation is, we can go from there.
Here's the crown of the .32 bl. I had. It makes for easy starting, then that .320" ball and .022" patch go down with only finger and thumb pinching the rod.
(https://i.ibb.co/SxThnzw/PB141918-zpsbd7b72c5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BPDXZ92)
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I am not saying Rice barrels are defective. At the time, I was wondering if my stash of .315 was usable or if I have to buy the smaller diameter. Now I have gotten my rifle, I have found I will have to. No big deal, .310 are more common anyway. I just thought you all would like to know what happened.
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tks for the explanation, Nemovir. Depending on your patch thickness, .310", .315" or .320" balls are all usable - but not, in my opinion with patching thinner than about .018"- compressed - with ANY of those sized balls in any normal ..32 rifle bl.
It is easy to load tight combinations in small bores. Tight combinations shoot cleanly and do now allow fouling to build up, as they clean the grooves when they are seated for the next shot.
The reason I say tight combinations are easy to load, is because the tiny ball has very little lead in it due to it's size, compared to the larger calibers. When seating, this tiny ball is easily formed to the bore, much more easily than a similar tight combination would be in say, a .58 calibre rifle. There is much more lead that has to be moved to seat, fill, seal and keep the bore clean, shot after shot, with the larger bores, thus they are more difficult to seat- it is relative. Our wives use the same combinations we use. They are not difficult until you start using .034" patches and balls only 8 thou smaller than the bore in guns like my .69 - those, you have to WANT to get started, but once started, the rifle's rod is all that is needed to seat them.
If there is no fouling buildup shot to shot, you only have one shot's fouling to deal with & that is handled easily by the wet patch, making for easy loading. One only has to learn how to seat the ball into the muzzle (starting it). Most of us use a short starter to get the ball formed into the bore. After that, if your bore is smooth, it does down very easily.
A smooth crown like in the picture above, even with narrow grooves and wide lands (which is opposite most modern bls.), allows seating just about any tight combination without damaging the integrity of the patch, allowing the patch to do it's job of sealing the flame and gasses being the ball. The wider the grooves and narrower the lands, the easier the loading.
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The wide grooves and narrow lands have been a proven success for eons.
Harry Pope,Bill Large,Alex Henry and others have barrels still in use to prove it.
Bob Roller