AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: Yung_flint on April 27, 2019, 02:46:26 PM
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So I'm new to the world of flintlocks, but not shooting or rifle care by any means. However anytime I take my flintlock or precussion guns out, come home and clean them, the next day I always have light rusting in the bore. My cleaning process is as follows:
-swab dirty bore a couple times with water-wet and a couple dry patches
-plug flash hole and fill bore with warm water
-let soak for a couple minutes, pour out water
-run clean patches through bore until they come out clean
-soak patch on isopropyl alcohol and run down bore, followed by 2 dry patches
-let bore sit while I clean lock parts
-run patch soaked in Slip 2000 gun oil ( cheating, but safe for black powder and great rust preventative on modern firearms) followed by 2 dry patches to pick up extra oil.
So I feel like my cleaning process is acceptable and not anything weird, so I dont understand my consistent rust problems. I shot and cleaned yesterday, and I check this morning and I already have light surface rusting in the bore. Thanks for the help.
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Don't know what slip 2000 is. But maybe you shouldn't be running two dry patches after you run the oil. Do that before you shoot the gun again.
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After cleaning spray some WD40 down the barrel to get rid of any residual moisture followed by a patch of WD40. Done. Don't use any SLIP. Only use that on my modern guns.
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Pour your dirty bore full of cold water, dump it after about twenty minutes, and repeat, run a few wet patches through the bore. Now run a couple of dry patches through the bore, it should be pretty clean. Now a little WD40 will displace the moisture, but I don’t rely on it for long term rust prevention, so I swab the bore with a patch soaked in BreakFree.
Hungry Horse
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one of my buddies, a gunsmith,...the real kind that builds custom (edited by Moderator) modern guns,...relies on Break-Free for all his anti-rust treatment. it is also his go to for after treatment of blueing jobs, as well. WD-40 is not designed as a long term moister repellent, it is designed to repel moisture immediately upon application but will not stop rust from forming in long term conditions unless it re-applied frequently. the best deterrent is dry steel in a dry climate which of course is all but impossible to achieve.
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run patch soaked in Slip 2000 gun oil ( cheating, but safe for black powder and great rust preventative on modern firearms) followed by 2 dry patches to pick up extra oil.
So I feel like my cleaning process is acceptable and not anything weird, so I don't understand my consistent rust problems. I shot and cleaned yesterday, and I check this morning and I already have light surface rusting in the bore. Thanks for the help.
Odd thing in your sentence - why is your bore rusting? sounds to me, you never get it clean - must not get it clean.
As noted, 2 patches after oiling is too much. Try only one- or none. If you are wetting a patch with the oil and running it up and down a few times, then patching twice- you are removing your rust preventative. I've never had a barrel rust in 1 day after cleaning and all I have every used for cleaning is the water bucket method and WD40- even when I lived on the coast.
My cleaning regime is in another thread, however I use WD40 as it is fairly dry here 50% humidity. After cleaning - I get it clean! Really clean because the barrels come of and get the breech shoved into a container of water. I use either a stainless bucket or Folgers 3lb. coffee can as it is plastic. Water is pumped into and out of the bore. They get CLEAN when you clean like that - cold water.
You don't need hot, don't need warm either, when cold tap water works. There is never ANY crusted fouling on my plugs, - that gets dissolved and flushed out of the bore. At Hefley Creek Rendezvous most years, the humidity runs between 6 and 9%. I find no difference in cleaning there, than cleaning at home. No difference in loading or point of impact, either.
The bore is cleaned with 1 patch - up and down, up and down drawing water into the bore, then flushing it out the vent of nipple seat. After that, it takes 4 to 5 patches to get it dry to where the last one is quite difficult to pull out - they are tight - doubled flannelette. My jags are sized so I can use doubled flannelette. It gets into the corners of the square rifling I prefer. At that point, the barrel is not only clean, but bone dry- 4 or 5 patches used. I have a Getz bl. with rounded rifling. I actually find it no easier to clean than square rifling - they all clean easily.
After the bore is dry - spray WD40 down the bore - copiously - that means a lot - until it runs out the nipple seat or vent. THEN that gets patched out- blasting the excess out the vent or nipple seat. That carries away ANY moisture than might be still in a nook or cranny at the breech. A tight fitting fresh patches is run down and out, down and out, then the dried, inside and out barrel is wiped down with that wet WD40 patch, the gun reassembled and put away, muzzle down in the rack. Any excess WD40 that might be in the barrel or breech, comes out the muzzle and is soaked up by the board the muzzle sits on in my lockup on the rack. NO rust the next day - no rust in 1 week, month or 5 years. I have never seen any nor felt any of the dried WD40 shellac people have spoken of here on this site. Perhaps storing the muzzle down prevents that. Storing the muzzle down, also stops the vents from being plugged with oil. I have never had to wipe out the bore before loading it next time, either.
The boys & girls here take their barrels off the stock for cleaning. It is what we've, (Taylor and I)taught them. Whether pinned or wedged on, the barrels come off for cleaning. Minor care is all that is needed, to prevent stock damage.
Yes - I know your ancestors likely did not do that - they also rusted the $#*! out of their barrels and had to have them "freshed" regularly if they shot much at all, which most did not.
Freshed, means to re-bore, if really bad, then re-rifle because their guns were badly neglected according to what we do today with ours.
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yes, I'm quite sure that anyone of us that has a muzzleloader shoots it much more than the typical owner back in the day !.
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Try cleaning the lock while the barrel is soaking with cold water in the bore. After the patches come out clean and after the alcohol wipe, patch well with WD40 then use alcohol to get that out. After drying, apply Barricade. Barricade dries and doesn't make a mess and it won't matter if you wipe the bore or not when next you shoot.
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one of my buddies, a gunsmith,...the real kind that builds custom guns from Military Mausers,...relies on Break-Free for all his anti-rust treatment. it is also his go to for after treatment of blueing jobs, as well. WD-40 is not designed as a long term moister repellent, it is designed to repel moisture immediately upon application but will not stop rust from forming in long term conditions unless it re-applied frequently. the best deterrent is dry steel in a dry climate which of course is all but impossible to achieve.
Interesting to note that you're not "real" unless you build modern guns using military rifles.... I guess I'll never be real.... :(
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one of my buddies, a gunsmith,...the real kind that builds custom guns from Military Mausers,...relies on Break-Free for all his anti-rust treatment. it is also his go to for after treatment of blueing jobs, as well. WD-40 is not designed as a long term moister repellent, it is designed to repel moisture immediately upon application but will not stop rust from forming in long term conditions unless it re-applied frequently. the best deterrent is dry steel in a dry climate which of course is all but impossible to achieve.
Interesting to note that you're not "real" unless you build modern guns using military rifles..... I guess I'll never be real.... :(
Lots of “real gunsmiths” have “built” custom guns off classic military modern rifles.
All too many of them have utterly destroyed any sense of history or value from them as well.
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How does someone working on modern rifles have any relevance on an American Longriflle forum??
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I’ll let you slide on the gunsmith statement, but call you on the statement regarding how much more we shoot our muzzleloader, than our ancestors. Are you kidding me? Those old boys killed their food, defended their land from predators two legged, and four legged. They Shot at matches, both official, and friendly after Sunday dinner ones, and even carried them to church.
So you might occasionally shoot more shots in a row, than the old timers, but you didn’t shoot more.
Hungry horse
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yeah, I kind of posted that tongue in cheek. and figured I might get called out on it. I know what you are saying. still, when you consider the amounts of lead and powder a modern enthusiast goes through on a yearly basis, it seems to me that the people of years past wouldn't be able to afford shooting that much, prices of course, being adjusted for time. there is a lot more expendable money around, now,, in modern times compared to then. people didn't waste it by spending an afternoon at the range shooting their favorite muzzle loader for enjoyment nearly as often as now. it would be nice to know just how much the average guy shot for enjoyment or practice, back then. I personally don't think it's nearly as much as you might think because money was a lot tighter then and people were generally more conservative.
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Most modern gunsmiths I know have little to no knowledge of blackpowder muzzleloading guns. They are clueless and probably happy to be that way. If I ever have need of help with my muzzleloaders, I take it to a muzzleloading gunsmith or muzzleloading gunmaker that knows what they are looking at.
what are mausers anyway? :D sounds like dog breed.
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I’m conferring with other moderators on which posts to toss or modify and what actions to take. I’ve sent 2 posts into the abyss. This is a warning. Any more posts not about cleaning rifles or that insult persons or the sort of craftsmanship celebrated here, will earn YOU a vacation from ALR.
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I've had just the opposite experience, of the gunsmiths I now well, all of them know muzzleloading as well as modern arms and build both on a regular basis. to my mind, you can't be called a "gunsmith" if you lack decent knowledge in one or the other area. in my career, I was a Journeyman Carpenter, that meant I had a working knowledge of all aspects of the craft, or I couldn't be called a "Journeyman". as mentioned earlier, the Trinidad school of Trades gunsmithing school, teaches both modern and muzzleloading craftsmanship to competence.....or you don't get a diploma.
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Well, I guess in your world, Wallace Gusler, Brad Emig, Jon Laubach, Gary Brumfield, Clay Smith etc etc aren't "real" gunsmiths, even though they can build a rifle from scratch including forging and finishing locks and barrels, casting buttplates and trigger guards etc. In the real world, these guys are true gunsmiths and I recognize them as such and applaud their dedication to keep the tradition going. I've missed a lot of other examples, but I do know that Chris Laubach is following in his Dad's footsteps as is Mike Miller. Eric Kettenburg once offered hand forged barrels and locks . Modern arms "gunsmiths" have their place, but this isn't it....and , frankly, I'm just not interested.
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Back to your rust problem Yung Flint. I am well versed in cleaning all types of firearms but the flintlocks and caplocks must be done a little different. First off I'm OCD about cleaning my flintlocks. Mine don't get clean in 5,10 or 15 minutes... it takes me as long as it takes to satisfy me. I've tried toothpicks in the touch hole and pouring water down the barrel, I've even tried one of those clamp on thingies and they work good part of the time but not all of the time.
I'm one of the few who remove the barrel. I built my rifles so I feel well qualified to remove the barrel. I remove the lock, then the tang bolt, then tap out 3 pins, what could be simpler? I pour clean cold water in a pail, then place the breech end of the rifle in the water being sure the touch hole is covered. I use a plain jag on either the ramrod or a range rod. I wet a patch and place it over the bore, then I swab the barrel. You will notice each swab it pulls a little more water into the barrel, just keep swabbing until water is pumped out the end of the barrel. If you were watching you saw most of the fouling flushed from the lower 1/3 of the barrel.
At this point I usually change out the dirty water for clean. Now I keep swabbing until the patch is clean.
I wipe dry the outside of my barrel then turn it upside down to drain placing the bore on a folded paper towel. Now I go inside and using hot tap water and a toothbrush I clean the lock. After cleaning I dry it with a paper towel, shake it dry, or blow it dry with an air gun depending on where I'm cleaning it. Now set it aside and let the heat finish drying it. Then spray it completely with WD-40.
The barrel is now dried with several dry patches. Then I spray WD-40 down the barrel so the liquid will seep into any crannies there might be, followed by a patch wet with WD-40, then the barrel is set aside while I finish the lock. I remove as much of the WD-40 as I can with either a paper towel or compressed air. Then oil the lock sparingly and replace the grease on the sear spring to sear, the mainspring to tumbler, and the frizzen spring.
Now I run a few dry patches down the bore until they come out dry. Followed by a patch wet with plain gun oil. For years I've used Remoil because I've got a lot of it and it works great. I use paste wax to protect the outside metal parts so I apply and buff a thin coat before the barrel goes back in the stock.
The oil is left full strength but after a few days I turn the rifle over and let gravity help even it out.
You do this everytime and you will never have a rusted bore again.
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Thank you boys for the assistance. I like the idea of not doing two dry patches after oiling. I'm re-cleaning the barrel as we speak, making sure the patches are fully clean before I oil the barrel.
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Darkhorse, question for you. I don't disagree about taking the barrel out for cleaning being the best way to clean. Do you have an SMR with a lollipop tang and if so how do you handle that?? I have one and bent the tang while cleaning and was lucky no real damage. I have not taken it out since for fear of seriously damaging either the tang or the wood or both. . Any ideas welcome.
Dave
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May I ask what type of powder do you use or has been used in this rifle?, I have noticed that a caplock rifle that I've had since I was a youngen is real prone to a rusty bore and it's the only one out of the 4 muzzleloaders I own that's had pyrodex shot through it. It's like the stuff etches the bore.
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JE MOORE HAS IT
What type of powder you burning Real Black Powder I Hope?
If you Burned a substitute IE. Pyrodex Your going to have trouble .
If so you need to scrub the Bore- Scotch Bright, 0000 steel wool. as best as possible' maybe even some brake cleaner?
I mean clean it! Take the Breech Plug out put the barrel in a vise and plan on getting messy use a Range Rod
and the Brake cleaner and Scotch Bright and scrub the bore from breech end, then repeat again and again and then use WD-40 and scrub. repeat repeat. with the WD-40.
(polish the face of the Breech Plug) fine sand paper if its flat faced.
Then from this day forward use REAL BLACK POWDER / Goex, Swiss etc.
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Yung_Flint,
Welcome to ALR. Lots of good info on cleaning given above. I only have one comment to add, I would drop the alcohol from your cleaning regimen and use WD-40 instead. If you are using 70% isopropyl alcohol, guess what the other 30% is.... water!
BTW, aren't flintlocks great!
-Ron
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My cleaning regime, Taylor's and most of the guys we shoot with is almost exactly the same as Darkhorse's.
Has been for decades, however I don't change the water part way through unless when cleaning my smoothbore
after shooting shot. Long gone are the days of horridly black water when cleaning a rifle.
The bucket I use is a small 4 or 5 quart bucket and the water barely gets grayish after a 30 to 60 shot day.
WD 40 has worked for us as a rust preventative, likely due to the low humidity here - other products are not necessary
nor is repeated re-application of it needed. The air/moisture quality control in my lockup room is fair I guess - 65F most of the year.
It is the same as all over the basement. If I had to store the guns upstairs where there is a lot of temp, variation, I might have to
do something different. I don't so I don't.
SMR with long skinny, fragile tangs that run onto the comb, I would clean on the rifle. With a shorter lollipop tang, Taylor has
made a wooden plug that the tang sits in and the only pressure is on the breech-end of the barrel as the tang is inside
the plug. It is placed on the barrel, then that is lowered into the water to sit on the bottom. You need a taller container
of water.
A black PVC plastic pipe from the hardware store, with a cap screwed and/or glued onto one end, set on a woden frame, makes
a good cleaning vessel of water for cleaning your ML guns - all of them.
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I use a 1 gal. plastic ice cream bucket with a 3 inch or so piece of 2x4 lumber in the bottom that has a shallow 1 inch hoke drilled into it to hold the tang, about 3/4 full of water or what ever it takes to sub-merge the vent. Pump a wet patch through the bore and suck up and force out the plain water and you will get the best clean job. The forcing in and out of the water really dissolves the fouling with a jet like action. The idea about the pvc pipe for lolly-pop tangs sounds like a good one if you have that style.
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Darkhorse, question for you. I don't disagree about taking the barrel out for cleaning being the best way to clean. Do you have an SMR with a lollipop tang and if so how do you handle that?? I have one and bent the tang while cleaning and was lucky no real damage. I have not taken it out since for fear of seriously damaging either the tang or the wood or both. . Any ideas welcome.
Dave
Strongbear, I don't have a lollipop tang nor do I have any experience with one but I can see your point. So I will defer to Daryl or others who possess the knowledge to give advice.
However, just thinking about it, What if a strong draft was filed on the the entire tang. Would this make it easier to remove the barrel? Before I start to finish the wood I open up the barrel and tang mortice just a few thousandth's of an inch until the barrel can be lifted out without chipping the stock. I do this knowing I will be pulling the barrel to clean it.
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I’d never mess with removing a barrel with a long lollipop tang. The tang is fragile and eventually the wood screws will wear some.
From reading all this I tried the soaking treatment after shooting on Saturday and it seems like it makes cleaning much more efficient. Pour some water in and leave it a bit. Pump it out and repeat the soak. I’m guessing it softens the fouling so it washes away easier. Still little tricks to be picked up here.
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I've used the soak method at rendezvous when to lazy to set up the bucket. Mosly with the .32, though as it shoots so cleanly with such a small charge, there is not much accumulated in the breech area.
2 soaks are usually enough, so about 8 to 12 patches gets it done. As soon as I'm home, I go back to bucket flushing.
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Thanks for the input guys. The lollipop tang rifle will continue to be cleaned in the gun. Just don't want to take chances with it. The rest of my guns I am not worried about taking the barrels out of the stock. Appreciate your thoughts. 8)
Dave
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Just so new guys know, not everybody takes the barrel out to clean a pinned rifle. NOBODY I ever shot with did so. The first time I ever heard about it was on this forum. I'd take the lock off, plug the vent hole with a tooth pick and fill the barrel with water and let it sit for a while. After starting the patch and jag at the muzzle I pull the tooth pick and push the patch and jag down to the breech spraying all the gunk and water out the vent hole. I may or may not repeat depending on how dirty the water is when it sprays out. You can stuff a small rag into the lock mortise if you are worried about water getting in that area....I usually didn't find it to be a huge problem. After that just patch it out with wet and then dry patches followed by some sort of oil.
However, I do pump out any barrel in a bucket that has keys and a hooked breech, as they are intended to be.
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"I use a 1 gal. plastic ice cream bucket with a 3 inch or so piece of 2x4 lumber in the bottom that has a shallow 1 inch hoke drilled into it to hold the tang,"
I really like your idea and will have to adopt it, thanks,
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I'm another one who never removes a pinned barrel for routine cleaning. The lock is always removed. With the lock removed I don't put it in water or scrub it to get it clean. Maybe I've been fortunate but the flint lock internals are never actually that dirty. A couple of Q-Tips, a pipe cleaner and a few minutes are all the locks ever need to get cleaned up. I seldom remove the locks on percussion guns as they very rarely need cleaning. After the bore soak the patching starts. Unlike some have claimed, I can't clean a bore with half a dozen patches; it may take three times that to clean to my satisfaction. I don't use rubbing alcohol; I use denatured alcohol which has no water. Another thing is that I take my time; there is no hurry bone in my body. There are times when I use an old hair dryer on the bore and/or lock to rid it of any vestiges of moisture. And most important of all, the bore gets checked the next day and then the next week and periodically after that. IMO you can't be too careful.
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I am in the Mike Brooks camp. My hooked breach/Keyed rifle gets the bucket -- my pinned rifles don't get the barrel pulled routinely. I have pulled a couple after 6-8 years and found no rust..... I do sort of "bed" the barrel in Renaissance Wax. that is coat it well!! It takes me a couple of dozen patches to get them clean... if I am going to be shooting again in a few days I finish with "Lehigh Valley" lube and set the gun muzzle down. If I am going to put it up for some time I wipe the bore well with Ballistol as a rust preventative.
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So I'm new to the world of flintlocks, but not shooting or rifle care by any means. However anytime I take my flintlock or precussion guns out, come home and clean them, the next day I always have light rusting in the bore. My cleaning process is as follows:
-swab dirty bore a couple times with water-wet and a couple dry patches
-plug flash hole and fill bore with warm water
-let soak for a couple minutes, pour out water
-run clean patches through bore until they come out clean
-soak patch on isopropyl alcohol and run down bore, followed by 2 dry patches
-let bore sit while I clean lock parts
-run patch soaked in Slip 2000 gun oil ( cheating, but safe for black powder and great rust preventative on modern firearms) followed by 2 dry patches to pick up extra oil.
So I feel like my cleaning process is acceptable and not anything weird, so I dont understand my consistent rust problems. I shot and cleaned yesterday, and I check this morning and I already have light surface rusting in the bore. Thanks for the help.
First off dry the barrel and oil it after its clean. The alcohol is not going to remove all the water and two patches is not likely the dry it either. If you want top dry it this way use denatured alcohol it has less water content than isopropyl. Leaving water set in the bore while you clean other parts is not a good idea. When i start cleaning the bore I don't stop til its dried and oiled. The barrel after all is the important part.
I also use more water, pour in water slosh by up ending the rifle a time or two. Dump, wipe one ot two passes and repeat a couple of times.
It its a pistol with a key(s) I generally pull the barrel even if its not hooked. I also have a swivel breech rifle that it would be hard to pull the barrels from. But it can be used with one of those clamp on hose things and I have but can't see its any better than the slosh method.
So clean, dry and oil the barrel and then clean the lock.
Stand the gun muzzle down on a folded up paper towel and the excess oil will drain out over night. AND with a little experimentation you will find that the black that comes out on the patches (when the wet ones have come out "clean") as the bore dries is actually black iron oxide. The patches I set aside to dry are always red. Not the color of dried fouling. But this is a whole other subject.
Dan
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Different makes of steel will leave more or less of the iron oxide on the dry patches.
When the bore is DRY, the patch is difficult to pull out. The bore grabs it. That is dry.
When I (tight) patch after the WD40 flush (not just a wet patch), blasting the excess out the vent or nipple seat,
that patch comes out perfectly clean - it is nothing but a WD40 wet patch. If you run 2 or 3 more dry patches down and
out, none of them will have any more oxide on them, until the bore is perfectly free of WD40, THEN by patch number 5,6,7
those patches will start to show more and more grey streaks, it is not fouling.
In the morning, if left outside, all of those drying patches with slightly black or grey streaks will be rusted, with no black or grey on them.
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If you're getting rust, there is moisture in the barrel. I use Ballistol. It mixes with water. There are times that I think the barrel is clean and dry. I run a patch with ballistol down the bore and back out and around the muzzle, the ballistol residue is white. That means it found some water. I'll dry the barrel again. Also, you should make sure you push water through the touch hole in your cleaning process to get any fouling left in the vent liner. I don't dump the water out of the barrel, I use a patch on a jag and jet it out the vent.
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For you boys wondering I've only shot GoEx out of the flinter although the rifle was shot before I owned it, I'm assuming with The Holy Black aswell. I've had the percussion gun longer, and it has had Pyrodex through it a few times before I knew better, but now all I run is GoEx in it.
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I believe it is important to go back the day after the gun is cleaned, and run a few oiled patches down the bore using your favorite preservative.
My mentor (a longtime target shooter at Friendship) says he believes that there is always some fugitive moisture in the bore or grain of the metal on cleaning day, no matter how diligent we are, or how much WD 40 is used. That leaves a light rust after a couple of days. I tried the "next day re-oiling" method and have had no issues since.
I have since learned that many folks also to the "next day re-oiling", so I am not alone in this. It only costs me a couple of patches and some time.
I pull the barrel to clean on a Hawken, but don't pull a pinned longrifle barrel to clean. I also wrap a cloth around the stock behind the lock before filling the bore with water on the pinned guns. That prevent any possible water staining. I actually use my frizzen to trap my toothpick touch hole plug, plus a dry patch to catch any leak. This insures the toothpick doesn't work loose. I pull the lock for cleaning after the bore is clean.
God Bless, Marc
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A cure for gunners who suffer from insomnia ;)
Corrosion under oil films: with special reference to the cause and prevention of the after-corrosion of firearms, (Huff 1922)
https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=AF6MSyL5wJkC&oi=fnd&pg=PA1&dq=corrosion+rifle+barrels&ots=1QPrnIUkFv&sig=Wzf3HQEeeMcQ6RXVC8wcXl2wgV0#v=onepage&q=corrosion%20rifle%20barrels&f=false (https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=AF6MSyL5wJkC&oi=fnd&pg=PA1&dq=corrosion+rifle+barrels&ots=1QPrnIUkFv&sig=Wzf3HQEeeMcQ6RXVC8wcXl2wgV0#v=onepage&q=corrosion%20rifle%20barrels&f=false)
-Carl
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[quote what are mausers anyway? :D sounds like dog breed.
[/quote]
I think those are dogs that hunt mice. :D
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How does someone working on modern rifles have any relevance on an American Longriflle forum??
At one time the longrifles were "modern". IMHO they still are.
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Sounds like the OP is removing the oil after he oiled the bore.
After cleaning, I hose the bore with Fluid film. Distribute it with a loose patch, then store muzzle down. Fluid film spray is easy to find, pleasant to use, and works very well.
https://www.fluid-film.com
The bureau of mines study on Corrosion under Oil Films was very important. It lead to the development of non corrosive primers. It is referenced in Hatcher's Notebook also. At the time people believed that acid gas from smokeless powder was the cause. Turns out it was the corrosive primers. That was masked in percussion caps and BP due to dilution by black powder fowling. There was a prejudice against using water to clean the rifle, then and now. Yet plain old water is the best way to dissolve the corrosive salts. After knowing this for 100 years if find it strange when I read about individuals believing they are cleaning their BP rifle properly without using a water containing solvent, or just plain water.
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Agreed, Scota4570. The corrosive primers were of Mercury oxides or dioxides, I think as well as chlorates.
The mercury primers were especially hard on ctg. brass, while the chlorates was horrid on rifle and shotgun bores.
Most of the phony powders today, like Pyrodex, contain not just a smidgen of chlorates as in a rifle/shotgun or pistol primer,
but a full 17% of the charge is perchlorates. I've been lead to believe the "per" - in front of "chlorates", means it develops 3 times
the oxygen - thus producing higher temperatures, higher pressures and more power than the same load in normal black powder.
I've also been advised that T-7 does not have perchlorates in it's composition, regardless of what the msds sheets say.
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The first percussion mixtures were mercury fulimate. Later mercury fulimate was used in caps and primers. Mercuric primers ruined brass. It was less obvious with BP because the fouling diluted it and people washed BP brass before reloading.
Latter corrosive US military primers used potassium chlorate, those ate the bore but not the brass. The Europeans favored mercuric priming, we liked chlorate primers.
Gads.........I spent way to much time reading dusty old books!
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Don't we all? Well, some of us at any rate.
In Europe, reloading was not and still is not practised like it is in North America. I assume that is the reason for the chance of primer preference. At least it sounds about right.
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As I have noted in the past, had I a long lollipop tang, I would clean the bl. on the stock IF my talented brother could not make a protection cage around it for my/our NORMAL bucket flush. That, to me is just plain common sense cleaning. The only way to get the breech plug face perfectly clean is buy the flushing in and out by water under pressure from a container of water. Taylor makes these gizmos for protecting the tang as a normal part of cleaning apparatus. A tang that stops atop the comb is another matter. A part, to me, to be a worthless, I mean TOTALLY useless appendage - like a 6th or even 7th toe.
In my humble opinion of course.
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One good way to assure that you are getting dry patches bro a dry bore is to touch your cheek with the used patch. A even slightly damp patch will feel cool against the sensitive skin of your cheek.
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I do not remove the barrel from my Kibler longrifle. The tang is just too fragile or in the least, the potential for bending it is too great. So I clean the rifle with the barrel in the wood. And hope for the best, knowing the risk.
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When I build a pinned rifle I coat the barrel channel and the barrel heavily with Renaissance wax. I think this prevents rust on the bottom of the barrel. I pulled the barrel on one to do some stock repair after 10 years and found no rust on the bottom.
Here is some interesting research: https://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/corrosion/corrosion.html (https://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/corrosion/corrosion.html)
https://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/corrosion/corrosion2.html (https://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/corrosion/corrosion2.html)