AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: pjmcdonald on May 25, 2019, 06:26:01 AM
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It started out a fine afternoon. Boss let us out early for the Memorial Day weekend and I thought to myself “great! Shop time on my little NC rifle!” Got home, changed into grungies, and headed out. Got the AC going, as it is already in the 90’s down here. Favorite tunes on the radio. Rifle on the bench. Life was good.
God has a sense of humor.
Got my under rib soldered on in only two attempts. Then realized I was off on the fitment. Off it comes again for a great deal more filing. Reattach under rib. Again.
Ramrod pipe took three tries to get attached properly. Then I accidentally smashed it in the vice while cleaning the barrel. Took the pipe off, reshaped, reattached for the fifth time. Yes, there was a number 4. It didn’t hold.
Dropped barrel. No idea how I managed that. Fumble fingers. Yay, it landed on the foam floor mat. Boo, the tang bent just slightly but enough to cause a small fitting error to the stock. Gently bent tang back to match stock and dressed back up.
Started inlet for what will be cast pewter nose cap. Split out a delicate corner. Glued that back up and realized, belatedly, that I should have quit much earlier. Or just gone to play golf this afternoon. Or that maybe I should give up gun building and take up the xylophone.
I don’t even know what a xylophone looks like.
(https://i.ibb.co/R37b17W/6-F79-A2-D9-F9-A8-4052-B99-C-501-A7-BD85508.jpg) (https://ibb.co/y6VPDVJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/sJ7fnV3/E00-C6554-1-E66-407-A-B02-B-4-C82-E225326-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PzkLK6C)
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I have most definitely had a day like that.
I like to think of them as “experience”.
Norm.
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Paul, welcome to the club. You are now an official rifle builder.😜 The rib looks great and so does the saw tooth design for the pewter nose cap. Make sure to cut a couple of grooves in the wood of the nose cap base to help the pewter flow to the bottom. Hershel lines the pour grooves with graphite also to help the pewter flow. I also drill a couple of holes into the barrel channel, four 1/16” holes counter sunk in the barrel channel. This does two things, it locks the nose cap in place and allows the air to vent into the barrel channel so you don’t get air bubbles in your pour.
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Paul, welcome to the club. You are now an official rifle builder.😜 The rib looks great and so does the saw tooth design for the pewter nose cap. Make sure to cut a couple of grooves in the wood of the nose cap base to help the pewter flow to the bottom. Hershel lines the pour grooves with graphite also to help the pewter flow. I also drill a couple of holes into the barrel channel, four 1/16” holes counter sunk in the barrel channel. This does two things, it locks the nose cap in place and allows the air to vent into the barrel channel so you don’t get air bubbles in your pour.
Great tip Jim! I’ve poured dozens of those things and have had air bubble issues from time to time. I’ll certainly try it your way next time!
Thanks!!!
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My last three days have gone just like that. Off center holes, splintered out wood, rattling trigger, and on and on. Problem solving is where it's at, I guess.
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Hmmm....Could it be that you beat your children in a former life or maybe kicked a dog??? ???
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I have most definitely had a day like that.
I like to think of them as “experience”.
Norm.
I calls em,Spells !!! Dave F 8) 8)
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It happens. I thought I would case harden a frizzen screw on a lock so it would work "better". When I put it back on the lock it snapped off like it was glass.
If you didn't have setbacks you wouldn't be building.
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I thought it would be fun to put together a double set trigger kit for the gun I am working on now. Broken tap in the trigger plate. Twice. Same hole. Dealt with that. Last night the front trigger spring vanished. I am guessing there is a fly right next to it.
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Bill, I no longer build, but still have a spare fly for a Jim Chambers lock. I don't know if they are all the same or different. It could be gor a late Ketland, a Dale Johnson or a small siler. If it will help, let me know and I will send it. PM me.
Frog
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frogwalking,
Thank you, but I do not need it. That was replaced a while ago.
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I served a 5 yr tool and diemaker apprenticeship and used all of my "one of those days" events early on in my apprenticeship. So....have never had "one of those days" events while building LRs for 43 yrs.... came close but not that close.
As a "wobbly minded" apprentice, those "one of those days" did bother me a lot....the hot flashes weren't a pleasant experience and my "one of those days" events were observed not only by the foreman but the 100 or so toolmakers. If one wanted to learn the trade, he had to work for a toolmaker and if there too many "one of those days' events, toolmakers didn't want you.
Well...I solved the problem of "one of those days"..... learned the trade from some excellent toolmakers and really enjoyed tool and diemaking. .....Fred
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All the best gun makers have had many days like that. It's called learning by experience. The only ones that didn't learn that way are liars or they aren't very good yet.
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Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. There are days when I swear my learning curve resembles a circle.
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Heck, my learning curve is about equal to the downslope of the Rockies!
Did a fantastic job of inletting the butt plate on my latest Hawken rifle. So far, barrel inlet is OK, waiting on the lock plate from L&R, muzzle cap is on, and now Butt plate inletted.
Or so I thought.
Measured the LOP, which "should be" 13.375", right? Well, when I drew the curve on the butt, apparently I used the BACK END of the lock to measure from. LOP came out to be 14.5", a bit long for this 5'10" guy.
So, back to the drawing board, then back to the band saw, then back...well, you got the picture, I 'm sure!
And like Bill Raby, a wee bit heavy on the inletting black, which, like printer's ink, gets everywhere!
Getting lots of practice with butt plates, I guess. At least it ain't raining today!
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Craig - 14.5" - that's just a speed bump, 12.5" - now that would be a problem.
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I'll grant you that one, Tommy. If it were 12.5, I'd be out in the yard cutting one of those 6' diameter sugar maples!
This time, I do have the luxury of sticking a bolt through the return screw hole, making a handle for myself. Cuts down on the black staining ME instead of the wood.
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Craig, we could have swapped stocks. I’m at 13-3/4”. Wanted closer to 14-1/2 but that was all that piece of wood gave me.
Yep. Learning from my mistakes. And they are legion! I didn’t have Fred’s apprenticeship. So now I’m the bumbling apprentice at 50 instead of 15.
A definite engineer pitfall - I can solve the problem in my mind and see what needs done. It just doesn’t always transfer to my hands. I have enormous respect for those with skilled hands earned through a lifetime of experience coupled with natural talent.
But I am getting better. The ability to learn and improve is a divine gift. I’ll give thanks and then go back to fighting the nose cap. Casting pewter is more difficult than it looks. @!*% voids....
Paul
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Forgot to add, yes Jim, I followed your advice and the tutorial. Still made a mess of things!
Paul
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http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=4669.msg43674#msg43674
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Paul it takes a little practice to pour a good nose cap or anything else in Pewter. I am not going to say all of mine turned out well or that I haven't made my share of mistakes in pouring nose caps. Keep at it and you will work it out.
Here is a Tomahawk mouth piece that I poured a couple of weeks ago. Of course this is after all of the clean up, the pour was not quite this clean. ;D
(https://i.ibb.co/4dn8kxs/IMG-1028.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m8V9p7v)
(https://i.ibb.co/qYSBgWh/IMG-1029.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zVMs27C)
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Having one of those days myself. Got 2 pin lugs in without much fuss, and the final one is being a royal pain. Got to make a new lug a touch bigger.
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Tim, thanks again for the link. I’ve read that tutorial a dozen times. Experience is still the best teacher. And I’m getting many lessons! :)
Jim, great work on the tomahawk. I really like the engraving on it too. I’m getting close. One little casting void to clean up and I think I’ve got it. I’ve come close to melting it all off and starting over several times.
I found some modeling clay at the craft store that hardens at 250 degrees. Works well for making a dam. It won’t melt and as soon as the hot metal hits it, it sets hard. Easier to clean since it chips off in chunks.
Thanks gentlemen for allowing me to vent a little and for the commiserations. This just seems to be one of those projects that fights me every step of the way.
Paul
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PJ, can you pass on the name of the clay that can handle high temps? I for one would surely love to get my hands on some of it.
"One of those days"!!! I think yesterday was one of them.
This old vet lives in one bay of a 3-car garage, and it gets kinda hot in the summer. So, I saved up some $$$ and got myself a window a/c unit. But with my back and all, I couldn't install it by myself,
So, my young 18 y.o. friend offered to help. We got it all situated, but had to make some mods, so started to take it out again. And y'all know that these units are mainly held in by the upper sash.
So, I went to raise the upper sash, and asked Teen Boy if he had the unit secured - he replied yes, and I raised the window.
Well, he did NOT have it secured, and the unit fell out. Mashed it up some, and since his foot was on the power cord, it ripped the cord out also!
Looks like it's gonna be a long, hot summer. See if I can save up another $200!
Y'all have a great day today, with no rain and gentle breezes. No tornados either!
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PJ, can you pass on the name of the clay that can handle high temps? I for one would surely love to get my hands on some of it.
"One of those days"!!! I think yesterday was one of them.
This old vet lives in one bay of a 3-car garage, and it gets kinda hot in the summer. So, I saved up some $$$ and got myself a window a/c unit. But with my back and all, I couldn't install it by myself,
So, my young 18 y.o. friend offered to help. We got it all situated, but had to make some mods, so started to take it out again. And y'all know that these units are mainly held in by the upper sash.
So, I went to raise the upper sash, and asked Teen Boy if he had the unit secured - he replied yes, and I raised the window.
Well, he did NOT have it secured, and the unit fell out. Mashed it up some, and since his foot was on the power cord, it ripped the cord out also!
Looks like it's gonna be a long, hot summer. See if I can save up another $200!
Y'all have a great day today, with no rain and gentle breezes. No tornados either!
Try repairing the power cord, the unit may work ok. Years ago I did a similar thing. Trying to take AC out of den window to move it to bedroom. It slipped from the upper sash and fell out the window onto the asphalt drive. I just knew it was ruined but I got it back in the house and put it in the bedroom window and it worked fine!
Dennis
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Craig,
Power cord should be straightforward to replace. If you can pull the cover, should be 3 screws.
Back to gun building, I used Sculpy III oven bake modeling clay to make a dam. Found it at one of the big box hobby stores. Hobby Lobby or Michael’s or some such. Can’t recall which one. About $5-10 for a pound of the stuff. Will last me a long while.
Like the tutorial, I used cardboard and tape but also used a thin layer of clay to make sure I sealed all the edges. Also used a ball of it to cover the RR hole. When filling a void, I made a small ring around the hole and ladled in just a dab of liquid pewter. Worked better than expected. If I have to do it again, I’ll get photos. Rather than melt, the hot liquid metal just makes the clay harden.
Paul
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Nice tip on the putty.
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Thanks, PJ - will look for the clay on my next trip to Lima.
I checked every thing over twice, and believe it will run ok. Not worried about the dents in the casing. Appreciate the concern by you, Dennis, and others.
On the Hawken project, got the barrel breeched with no problem. And my Vixen file made short work of draw filing; it is sure nice to see those scrolls of metal falling off. And for those that rub the file both ways, there is room enough between the teeth that you are not making scratches with the steel shavings. Good, smooth, and fast!
Inletting that long (6 7/8") tang is going to be a fun chore, but that's next.