AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: John Shaw on July 12, 2019, 04:25:57 AM
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My .32 Douglas barrel seems to like .320 balls and a .010 patch. I found this out by discovering a few pre-cut .010 patches in some of my old plunder. Does anyone know where I can buy a tight weave cotton material of this thickness? I don't want pre-cuts but want to buy a yard or so.
Thanks,
JS
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try jo ann's fabric store or a local fabric store and take your calipers. getting strange looks is half the fun. be sure you are buying pure cotton.
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Joann's Fabrics. Their blue and white striped pillow ticking should be .010. They sell a thicker one so do bring your calipers. Their red and white measures .018 if memory serves me right. Be sure and throw it in the washer to remove the sizing.
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Thanks. I'll try Joanns next time I'm near one which will be in about 3 weeks. I'll take a micrometer so I'll look even stranger. I was in a WalMart last winter and asked a couple of young ladies in the fabric section if they had any pillow ticking. All I got from them was a blank stare. They didn't have a clue what I was talking about. While I was describing it an older WalMart lady walked up and told them what I was looking for and that they don't carry it anymore. Like with so many other things there's a generational disconnect.
JS
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John, I purchased the following from Joann Fabrics: Sew Classics 100% cotton twill. It compresses to .010" (micrometer reading) and has never burned through with fairly stout loads, e.g. 80gr. FFg.
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Uggh, Joann has so many different fabrics, I threw up my hands and bought and used only the mattress ticking and use it as my constant. I don't shoot beyond 25 yards anyway.
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Thanks. I'll try Joanns next time I'm near one which will be in about 3 weeks. I'll take a micrometer so I'll look even stranger. I was in a WalMart last winter and asked a couple of young ladies in the fabric section if they had any pillow ticking. All I got from them was a blank stare. They didn't have a clue what I was talking about. While I was describing it an older WalMart lady walked up and told them what I was looking for and that they don't carry it anymore. Like with so many other things there's a generational disconnect.
JS
Joann's website sez they are still selling it. Cotton Pillow Ticking Utility Fabric ITEM # 1120070. if you show them the item number, they can check their inventory.
P.S if you sign up for their APP, they will send you coupons. Most often it 40% off. since it on my route home, I drop by and buy a yard. with fabrics, coupons only applied for 1 yard.
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Be aware that there can be some differences in the striped ticking. The last red striped ticking I bought was close to your .010" requirement; while the blue stripe - pillow ticking (.016") and mattress ticking, blue and brown (.018") were good quality. The red, however, was not nearly as tight a weave as the others. You might find a cotton drill with tight weave that measures .010" or slightly over.
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I use this stuff. Tough as nails but i'm not sure what the thickness is. I bought it and made it fit the bore. I can't imagine what kind of load it would take to burn through it.
I believe Daryl uses this too.
https://www.joann.com/sew-classic-bottomweight-10oz-natural-bull-denim/prd26101.html?q=USUGGESTION-Sew%20Classics%20Bottomweight%2010oz.%20Bull%20Denim%20Fabric%20-Natural
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Not sure why, but denim always seats with more protest than some other materials I've used. My current favorite is unbleached heavy canvas which measures, for me, about .024". Strangely, it seats more easily than the thinner cotton duck (which is also good). I'm quite sure my arthritic hands don't help.
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Not sure why, but denim always seats with more protest than some other materials I've used. My current favorite is unbleached heavy canvas which measures, for me, about .024". Strangely, it seats more easily than the thinner cotton duck (which is also good). I'm quite sure my arthritic hands don't help.
Yeah, denim is tough and why Levi's last so long. :)
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Recently I was looking for some patch material that was tough with a dense weave to shoot in my .40 and .54 rifles. I wanted .015 because it's easy to load and shoots accurate in my rifles. I looked at eastern maine shooting supplies, found what I wanted and ordered 5 or 10 yards. It's tough with a dense weave and it does just what I wanted it to do. So do yourself a favor and click this link and see for yourself.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ssn=easternmaineshootingsupplies&rt=nc
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moved
EDITED:
Sry guys. Wrong thread and since I'm on.my phone away from home I cannot cut/,paste it to the other thread, that is, until I get home.
As far as using a .320 ball in a .32 bore, I did using the same 10oz denim I used with the .311" ball. Loafs very easily with both. I measure that denim at .022" with my dial calipers, compressed hard.
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Daryl;
I don't know what 12 OZ denim mics. It looked tough & felt thick, so I just bought & tried it & it worked well with the .526 balls. Another thing that works well is heavy linen artist canvas, but it is spendy at around $40.00/yd. I got interested in it when I ran into an older guy at our range a few years back who was getting impressive accuracy with one of the Pedersoli target pistols off the bench at 50 yds. My guess is that he was a really accomplished shooter, too. We talked for a while & he showed me some of his artist's canvas patching that he swore by. I tried some & it seems to work well for me when a gun is being stubborn. Interesting thing is I never saw him again. Could have been a snowbird I guess. Or an artist canvas salesman.
Roger B.
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John,
By now you probably understand that each of us measures fabrics a little differently and you will too. I'm going to recommend that you take a couple of those pre-cut patches you found along with you to the fabric store. When you think you have found what you like, do some comparison measurement right on the spot. If you're using a micrometer..measure UN-compressed using the "little ratchet handle", then squeeze it down with the larger "barrel handle" for a compressed measurement and compare those two numbers to what you get with those pre-cuts you like using the same 2 measurement technique. After you have made your choice...record all those numbers in your logbook. (You are keeping a logbook aren't you...????)
Like Hanshi said...you cannot just go by color of striping.
These days 98% of the rounds I fire are out of a flintlock, fired offhand and to be honest..my shooting is so poor I doubt the finer points of patch material choice is having much effect. 10 oz denim works pretty well overall. In my Colerain round-bottom (aka: "Radius rifling") rifle barrel I use 12 oz. If'n I ever find myself shooting even 2 inch groups, centered nicely around the "X" ring...then I'll really spend some time on patch material. As it is...I generally get a few really solid shots in the 9-10 rings, then throw one or two 6 inches off to the side. :-[ That ain't a patch material problem.
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Not sure what Simon Kenton, George Rogers Clark, or Mr. Boone used to measure their fabric when they went to the trading post to get their supply for the upcoming year. Not to beat a dead horse but we are way over thinking this. If it works buy it, write down or take a picture of the end of the bolt. You wash it, you dry it you cut it you oil them (or not) and you shoot them.
The "Muskrat" has spoken.
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Not sure what Simon Kenton, George Rogers Clark, or Mr. Boone used to measure their fabric when they went to the trading post to get their supply for the upcoming year. Not to beat a dead horse but we are way over thinking this. If it works buy it, write down or take a picture of the end of the bolt. You wash it, you dry it you cut it you oil them (or not) and you shoot them.
The "Muskrat" has spoken.
http://www.clovegarden.com/recipes/3mm_muskrat1.html
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Not sure what Simon Kenton, George Rogers Clark, or Mr. Boone used to measure their fabric when they went to the trading post to get their supply for the upcoming year. Not to beat a dead horse but we are way over thinking this. If it works buy it, write down or take a picture of the end of the bolt. You wash it, you dry it you cut it you oil them (or not) and you shoot them.
The "Muskrat" has spoken.
Yeah, this post is a classic example of over thinking and complicating a simple problem.
But I have long pondered the solutions found by Simon Kenton and others way back in the day. I keep coming back to "they just used what they could get that allowed them to load a prb"
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I've read they used deer hide for patch material too. That seems like it would be too thick and better used for clothing. Do you think there's any truth to it?
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Daryl;
I don't know what 12 OZ denim mics. It looked tough & felt thick, so I just bought & tried it & it worked well with the .526 balls. Another thing that works well is heavy linen artist canvas, but it is spendy at around $40.00/yd. I got interested in it when I ran into an older guy at our range a few years back who was getting impressive accuracy with one of the Pedersoli target pistols off the bench at 50 yds. My guess is that he was a really accomplished shooter, too. We talked for a while & he showed me some of his artist's canvas patching that he swore by. I tried some & it seems to work well for me when a gun is being stubborn. Interesting thing is I never saw him again. Could have been a snowbird I guess. Or an artist canvas salesman.
Roger B.
I use the same material, both 12 and 14 oz. denim with the .675" balls as well, in the .69. The mould, a J. Tanner mould measures .677", which is 15 bore. The pure lead I use casts out at .675".
Loading with these patches and either pure lead, or hard, with the heavy patch is quite easily done.
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Daryl..........Don't you use the 10oz too? I thought you said you did in a PM. If you do, what does it measure? I don't have a way to measure it.
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Have no idea what ounces converts to in thousandths for patch thickness. Can somebody please post a comparison chart?
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Daryl..........Don't you use the 10oz too? I thought you said you did in a PM. If you do, what does it measure? I don't have a way to measure it.
Yes I use 10oz denim as well, but not in the .69. It likes thicker patches. The 10oz. is/was used in my .32 (barrel given away), .36 Rice square rifling, .40 Goodioen (sold), .45
GM, (sold), .50 Getz rounded rifling and the 20 bore. I use 12 and 14oz., in my .60, with either the 15 bore, .675pure or .677"WW balls or the .682" pure lead balls.
I have experimented with a canvas that measures .022" across the weave in my calipers, that is harder loading than the 10oz denim, but it is not as accurate as the heavier
patching when tested for accuracy at 50 yards, in the .69. As you can see by the test targets, the thinner canvas went about 1-1/2" for 4 shots (fouled) while the heavier patching plunked 4 fouled shots into less than 3/4"- rested, of course.
(https://i.ibb.co/S0m2819/50yds.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RP61mMV)
As to oz. vs. thickness, I make 6oz about at about .012/4"(which I find useless for any use, except for blowing my nose), 8oz at .018", 10oz. at .022/.0225", 12oz. at .030" and 14oz at .034".
These measurements are with the compressed jaws (finger and thumb) of my Hornady calipers.
These measurements are in the middle of my 3 sets of dial calipers.
All of these calipers give identical readings on hard objects, but range .001" apart (range of .003") when measuring materials.
I assume this is due to slightly different width of the jaws.
I like to size my cleaning jags, to use a doubled thickness of flannelette I purchase just for cleaning my guns. As it takes only one patch to clean, and 4 or 5 for drying and oiling,
a few yards lasts a long time - years & the material is inexpensive, compared to patch materials.
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Ok, thanks. I thought the 10oz was thicker than the .018 pillow ticking I used to use. For sure it's a lot tougher too.
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I've read they used deer hide for patch material too. That seems like it would be too thick and better used for clothing. Do you think there's any truth to it?
I don't know if it's true or not but that's what I was told many years ago. I guess it could be reasonable as deer hide was available in the wilderness. I've felt some hide that was certainly thin and soft enough. In this case I would regulate the diameter of the ball so it would start and seat easy with the greased deer hide.
It's possible that more than one size bullet mold was carried so as to fit different thickness's of hide.
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I've read they used deer hide for patch material too. That seems like it would be too thick and better used for clothing. Do you think there's any truth to it?
I don't know if it's true or not but that's what I was told many years ago. I guess it could be reasonable as deer hide was available in the wilderness. I've felt some hide that was certainly thin and soft enough. In this case I would regulate the diameter of the ball so it would start and seat easy with the greased deer hide.
It's possible that more than one size bullet mold was carried so as to fit different thickness's of hide.
That makes sense.
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I've read they used deer hide for patch material too. That seems like it would be too thick and better used for clothing. Do you think there's any truth to it?
I don't know if it's true or not but that's what I was told many years ago. I guess it could be reasonable as deer hide was available in the wilderness. I've felt some hide that was certainly thin and soft enough. In this case I would regulate the diameter of the ball so it would start and seat easy with the greased deer hide.
It's possible that more than one size bullet mold was carried so as to fit different thickness's of hide.
I also remember that being said... Hide thickness can vary a decent amount over an animal's body. The belly area tends to be thinner, but I don't know if it's THAT much thinner.
Mike
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It" not a problem to thin any hide ,I do it all the time . Just don"t bring your micrometer when I"m done/ED
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A friend and I tried this many moons ago, and found the thickness wasn’t as big a problem as the elasticity. Accuracy was erratic, and recovered patches showed a great degree of stretching. I assume most of the stretching occurred during the loading process.
Hungry Horse
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I have used cotton for patch material, but lately have been using 100% linen. Seems to work great. I also purchased it from JoAnns. Don’t know what thickness. Hard to start unless using a short starter, but for smoothbore shooters, that’s another subject. I have spent counsiderable time at the range this summer and found out that with my smoothbore, can’ See much different between tight fitting ball or one that can be started with my thumb. Then, some shoot bare ball in a smoothbore. Jerry
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I agree with Jerry on the linen patching. Like the perpetual thread that won’t go away, about cotton patched ball combinations that mysteriously quit working. It’s not a mystery, cotton degrades over time, while linen either doesn’t, or does so slowly that it doesn’t matter.
I find patching a round ball in a smoothbores counterproductive. The trouble is not worth the marginal, if any, increased accuracy.
Hungry Horse