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General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Eric Kettenburg on July 24, 2019, 03:43:22 PM

Title: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on July 24, 2019, 03:43:22 PM
Just talked to Chris Laubach yesterday and he is closing in on the first run of his new CNC-machined German lock.  I'm going to post a number of pictures below of his prototype so you can all see for yourself, but I have to say I am freaking excited.  It is directly copied from a 1740s chiseled German lock, however he's making it plain/undecorated so that it can suitably be utilized for either German or American rifles, fowlers etc.  This looks like it is going to be a spectacular lock for use with American work such as any of the early Moravian-associated pieces or really anything interpretational of the 1740s through 1760s period; I think it could be a great representation of a German import piece. 

He told me that all CNC work is performed in-house and the exterior of the plate and cock will be taken to approximately 400 grit.  Locks will be fully assembled and functional just like any other commercial lock and all interior components will be hardened and tempered (including the bridle!).  And... (drum roll):  FORGED SPRINGS!  Yes, that's correct, all three springs are forged.  Furthermore, the frizzen will be made of a lower carbon steel and deeply *casehardened* for best sparking ability (we discussed this point quite a bit and Chris clearly has researched this point thoroughly).

JMHO but I think there will be considerably less cleanup work involved with these by the gun stocker than with the typical investment cast lock.  Currently, I think he plans to have the first run of these ready sometime early in the fall and he's also working on a new website specifically for his lock business as this is just the first of a number of locks that he has planned.  The website is https://firelocksllc.com/ .  I think he's doing something on Facebook also but I don't really know much about social media so I'll have to wait until one of my girls comes back home so she can find it for me.

Chris will be at Dixon's this weekend and will have his prototype with him so I'd highly advise everyone to find him and take a good look.

Original 1740s German lock:
 
(https://i.ibb.co/tXCSDmb/IMG-2172.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0tJkrDf)


The new lock:

(https://i.ibb.co/pzLcj60/image3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fpxfdV1)

(https://i.ibb.co/DYkgyXX/image2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HCYpsvv)

(https://i.ibb.co/hCk9g8y/image1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d7SMfKr)
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on July 24, 2019, 03:51:47 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/9Yq7WPB/IMG-0312.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WKcLfC7)


(https://i.ibb.co/0nKzYsL/IMG-0311.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RgNJQjK)


(https://i.ibb.co/X27RtVQ/IMG-2167.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mD9W4Sj)


(https://i.ibb.co/jJC7wLC/IMG-2168.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Bnh86gh)


(https://i.ibb.co/3CP2dvc/IMG-2170.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gRcN9dJ)


(https://i.ibb.co/tppVvss/IMG-2173.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qYYTcss)


(https://i.ibb.co/6BXGYtT/IMG-2174.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cLYRJ8Z)
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: rich pierce on July 24, 2019, 04:36:08 PM
I’ve been following this. I hope he’s got a list because I asked to be in on the first batch.
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Pukka Bundook on July 24, 2019, 04:38:14 PM
It looks a very nice lock, Eric.

The only thing I can see that needs a little fixing, is the lower breast of the cock, but it is all Very nicely machined!

Richard.
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: sz on July 24, 2019, 04:38:39 PM
Wow! Just beautiful.
Can you give us dimensions?  And a guess as to the price?

I think he should do a left hand version too.  With CNC machining a reverse pattern is not all that hard to do.  Some re-writing is needed to make sure the computer doesn't go to all L.H. threads and so on, but overall, such a change is fairly easy.
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: chris laubach on July 24, 2019, 04:57:55 PM
It looks a very nice lock, Eric.

The only thing I can see that needs a little fixing, is the lower breast of the cock, but it is all Very nicely machined!

Richard.

Hi Richard,
Please understand this lock is within.005” of the original lock.

Thanks
Chris

Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Chris Evrard on July 24, 2019, 06:03:07 PM
Lookin' forward to holdin' and workin' it this weekend! Pretty piece.....
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Rolf on July 24, 2019, 06:44:50 PM
Wow! Just beautiful.
Can you give us dimensions?  And a guess as to the price?

I think he should do a left hand version too.  With CNC machining a reverse pattern is not all that hard to do.  Some re-writing is needed to make sure the computer doesn't go to all L.H. threads and so on, but overall, such a change is fairly easy.

What about it Chris? It would be a big hit with us south paws.


Best regards

Rolf
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Kevin on July 24, 2019, 08:01:04 PM
Many thanks for sharing the photos.  It's great to see such products come to market.

Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Justin Urbantas on July 24, 2019, 08:24:14 PM
I'm excited to get one of these.   It will be perfect to go along with the Jaeger castings I got from Ron Scott.
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: P.W.Berkuta on July 24, 2019, 08:25:44 PM
All I can say is -- WOW -- 8) ;). If it performs as good as it looks it is sure to be a winner!!! I can just imagine all the time this lock will save the builder!
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on July 25, 2019, 12:28:45 AM
I particularly like the blind screws.   :)

Chris will have to answer here if he has a chance about the length, as when I was talking to him, he didn't have one in front of him to measure exactly.  I just asked if it was "rifle size" which is an affirmative, so I'd guess somewhere in the 5.25 to 6" range of length given the dating of the original.
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: smylee grouch on July 25, 2019, 02:20:25 AM
This lock looks like it will fit/blend into the wrist architecture very well on a lot of early guns. JMHO
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Ed Wenger on July 25, 2019, 02:36:22 AM
That’s a beauty!!!!


            Ed
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: chris laubach on July 25, 2019, 03:30:18 AM
Hello All,

The length is roughly 5 3/4" long.
A left hand lock could easily be produced as the locks are made from a 3D CAD file. At some point we do plan on posting a list and when there is enough interest we will make a small run.
If you guys have any other question let me know.

Thanks,
Chris
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Smokey Plainsman on July 25, 2019, 03:41:06 AM
Laubach is set to change the lock industry how Jim Kibler revolutionized the kits.

Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Justin Urbantas on July 25, 2019, 04:28:03 AM
Do you know what the price will be, Chris? Any ideas on what your next type of lock?
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Robby on July 26, 2019, 04:23:59 PM
Beautiful lock!!!! Put me on the LH list.
Robby
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Ezra on July 26, 2019, 09:36:32 PM
May I respectfully suggest starting a thread soliciting interest (so long as Dennis Glazener has no issues), or even financial commitment, so Chris can get the first run done and out into the public?  I know I’d commit to buying one.


Ez
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Rolf on July 26, 2019, 09:44:05 PM
May I respectfully suggest starting a thread soliciting interest (so long as Dennis Glazener has no issues), or even financial commitment, so Chris can get the first run done and out into the public?  I know I’d commit to buying one.


Ez

Good suggestion!! I'd sign up for a left handed Lock.

Best regards
Rolf
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Ezra on July 27, 2019, 12:04:15 AM
Regarding a lock like this, Germanic, circa 1740.  Is it credible that such a lock could have been used in an early Lancaster style rifle?  Have we any known examples of something similar from the Lancaster school?


Ez
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: SingleMalt on July 27, 2019, 05:18:22 PM
The question is, "Does it work?"  Chris sent me this video yesterday and posted it on Youtube.  Oh boy, does it work!  ;D

https://youtu.be/LPoFSLu4EZg
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: FALout on July 28, 2019, 12:45:32 AM
I can’t wait for these to be available, I would like to buy one.
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: gusd on July 28, 2019, 05:28:56 PM
Had one in hand Sat., Absolutely Beautiful. Boy does it spark!!
Should take about an hour to engrave like the original! HaHa :o ;D
Gus
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: sqrldog on July 30, 2019, 05:56:11 PM
I noticed on a couple of websites that Chris Laubach is considering a run of left handed Germanic locks if he can get orders for a hundred left handed locks. I signed up for one as I have a left handed grandson. So lefties time to sign up. Tim
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Rolf on July 30, 2019, 06:42:45 PM
I noticed on a couple of websites that Chris Laubach is considering a run of left handed Germanic locks if he can get orders for a hundred left handed locks. I signed up for one as I have a left handed grandson. So lefties time to sign up. Tim

Do you have link to where I can sign up for a left handed Lock?

Best regards
Rolf
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: SingleMalt on July 31, 2019, 01:19:52 AM
I noticed on a couple of websites that Chris Laubach is considering a run of left handed Germanic locks if he can get orders for a hundred left handed locks. I signed up for one as I have a left handed grandson. So lefties time to sign up. Tim

Do you have link to where I can sign up for a left handed Lock?

Best regards
Rolf

Send Chris a PM.  He's a member here.
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: chris laubach on August 01, 2019, 12:09:40 AM

I did receive a few messages asking about...where are the sparks in the video being directed?  So I thought I would share a few still photos from the video.

(https://i.postimg.cc/43vbk0n6/B50-F9-F40-58-CE-4028-B637-4947-BFBEE857.png) (https://postimg.cc/94MqyJd0)

(https://i.postimg.cc/CK0LtP3p/D7367-A86-4547-46-E5-B633-39907-FE6-D473.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nXdJ9kV3)

(https://i.postimg.cc/JzZzpVdQ/46-CAD0-A9-87-C3-4787-91-BA-1-D143-CAD193-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cv1WJjWK)


Thanks
Chris
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Ky-Flinter on August 01, 2019, 12:44:08 AM
Holy cow!  That thing is a flamethrower!

-Ron
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: smart dog on August 01, 2019, 12:45:04 AM
Hi Chris,
That is great!  No better way to address a question than with data.  Also, I just wanted to say keep that English lock as long as you need even if it takes until Dixon's next year.  I always enjoy visiting with you.

dave
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: mony on August 01, 2019, 12:46:01 AM
Nice pics. Pretty well sums it up. Where’s that list?
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on August 01, 2019, 12:50:37 AM
Not gonna get any better than that!
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Mike Brooks on August 01, 2019, 02:21:53 AM
Laubach is set to change the lock industry how Jim Kibler revolutionized the kits.
Not going to make any difference on how or what I build...except for an increase in price.
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: smart dog on August 01, 2019, 04:15:38 AM
Hi Mike,
Except it will save you the time and money to polish and tune locks you put on your guns.  For me, Chris's locks will cut my costs. I assume of course that you do polish and tune your locks?

dave
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Mike Brooks on August 01, 2019, 04:30:29 PM
Polish and tune? Certainly you jest.....
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: FlintFan on August 01, 2019, 05:00:40 PM
Hi Mike,
Except it will save you the time and money to polish and tune locks you put on your guns.  For me, Chris's locks will cut my costs. I assume of course that you do polish and tune your locks?

dave

CNC machined surfaces will still need to be hand polished and or filed to some extent before engraving, finishing, etc, dependent on what scallop height is specified in the tool paths. 

Unless of course polishing is a step that is being done by the maker as part of the manufacturing and assembly process? 
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: chris laubach on August 01, 2019, 06:32:49 PM

Correct...CNC surfaces do need to be polished.. our locks will come to the customer with the facing surface polished to 400grt. That being said... there is no filing needed to “true” surfaces before polishing with 220, 320, 400 and so on. Our CNC surface lends itself to go right to a 400 grt sand paper...some will find this to be a huge time saver..... some may not.

Thanks
Chris
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: E.vonAschwege on August 01, 2019, 09:20:51 PM
I had the pleasure of looking over and cycling Chris' new lock while at Dixon's.  I have used locks by every commercial maker, and have made plenty of my own - assembled from castings as well as forged while working at Colonial Williamsburg.  I always spend a few hours tuning commercial locks.  That means removing any casting lines on the outside, polishing and hardening each pivot screw and bearing surface (bridal and lockplate), and balancing the springs.  I will continue to use locks of all makes as projects require different styles. 

To say I was impressed with this lock is putting it lightly.  This CNC lock eliminates small variations in casting and hand assembly tolerances, and felt indistinguishable from the original German lock it is copied from.  It felt like a swiss watch.  The bearing surfaces are guaranteed to be true, and the CNC marks that do exist should be taken care of with fine grit backed sandpaper.   Any extra money spent on the lock will be saved in the hours of tuning. 

On the subject of carburizing the frizzen.  The frizzens on the locks I built at Williamsburg were forged of iron, case hardened for 3-4 hours (depended on my patience level), and threw a shower of sparks in a different manner than a cast steel frizzen.  They both work, as cast frizzens have proven for half a century, but I like that this lock is trying something "new" (or should I say old?).  The lock on the "sacrificial" rifle at the Williamsburg shop got cycled roughly 3 dozen times a day, 365 days a year, and wore into the soft iron after a year and a half - figure 12-15,000 cycles?  The carburizing method will be deeper than my case hardening was, so I for one won't worry about wearing it out.  If I do, a CNC replacement will simply screw into place - no careful fitting required. 

Looking forward to it!
-Eric


Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: sdilts on August 03, 2019, 03:46:45 PM
Until we know the price of the lock we really don't know if it will cut costs or not.
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Mike Brooks on August 03, 2019, 04:56:52 PM
Until we know the price of the lock we really don't know if it will cut costs or not.
Matters not. I'd just figure $275-$350. perhaps a bit more.
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on August 03, 2019, 04:59:43 PM
I assume Chris will post it when he has the entire first run ready for sale, although based upon what I was told, I find it to be a very reasonable premium over current best-quality (Chambers, imho) investment cast locks.

It's not merely the idea of saving monetized time spent polishing but to my personal way of thinking (there's not much I dislike more than polishing locks) time spent engaged in an aggravating, drudge-type task!
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Daryl on August 03, 2019, 07:43:41 PM
What is a day's time worth? Taylor has told me it takes him a full day's work, about 8 hours, to polish most locks to his satisfaction.
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: sqrldog on August 03, 2019, 07:56:27 PM
More important to me is the fit and function of the lock. I've been told by by someone that really knows and understands locks, lock geometry, and function that Chris' lock is the best lock he has seen antique or modern.  This of course does not include every lock made but I do value his opinion greatly. I look forward to owning one. Now with that said less polishing will be a welcome plus. But as my buddy Frank Bartlett used to say you can't polish a #&&#. I hope Chris continues on and makes other models for different applications.
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Pete G. on August 03, 2019, 09:03:17 PM
... as my buddy Frank Bartlett used to say you can't polish a #&&#.

Actually mythbusters proved that you can, although they did start with cow manure. ;)
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: smart dog on August 03, 2019, 09:27:26 PM
Hi,
Chris's lock is the finest Germanic flintlock that is made commercially today. It has no rivals with respect to quality and function in that style.  Chris intends to make a high-end English fowler lock and a high-end flat English pistol lock.  I gave him a fine original flat-faced English fowler lock from the 1770s, which does not have all the later bells and whistles but will fill the niche of locks bridging the round-faced locks and the later flat locks with roller frizzens and waterproof pans.  Hopefully, he will be able to use it.

dave
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Mauser06 on August 08, 2019, 11:44:35 PM
Any ideas when these will be available??
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: SingleMalt on August 09, 2019, 12:24:10 AM
Any ideas when these will be available??


Chris told me mid-October, thereabouts.
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Mauser06 on August 09, 2019, 12:35:15 AM
Thanx! 
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: RAT on August 13, 2019, 02:32:47 AM
How about a late English (1820's-1830's) lock? Flat faced plate (no beveled edge), water-proof pan, double throated cock, with a stirrup on the tumbler/mainspring.
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: chris laubach on August 13, 2019, 03:25:26 AM
It’s a possibility... we are currently working on two other styles that we hope to have the prototypes ready in time for the Lewisburg show in February.

Thanks
Chris


How about a late English (1820's-1830's) lock? Flat faced plate (no beveled edge), water-proof pan, double throated cock, with a stirrup on the tumbler/mainspring.
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: RAT on August 14, 2019, 02:55:25 AM
Outstanding!
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: RAT on August 16, 2019, 03:10:27 AM
What I had in mind is similar to the lock shown on the Joseph Whitson Sr. rifle on page 37 of the KRA book "Kentucky Rifles of the Great Smoky Mountains".
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Pukka Bundook on August 16, 2019, 07:52:26 AM
Chris,

Where there is  a huge gap, is the last type of flintlocks, with the 'V' shaped or "U' shaped pans and accompanying refinements.

Nothing is offered as a complete lock I don't think.  (No clue on how these would sell though!)
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Justin Urbantas on August 18, 2019, 09:24:38 PM
Chris,

Where there is  a huge gap, is the last type of flintlocks, with the 'V' shaped or "U' shaped pans and accompanying refinements.

Nothing is offered as a complete lock I don't think.  (No clue on how these would sell though!)
I would get one or two
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Dphariss on August 19, 2019, 08:29:52 PM
What is a day's time worth? Taylor has told me it takes him a full day's work, about 8 hours, to polish most locks to his satisfaction.

Exactly and its a PITA and after a time it starts to hurt.

Dan
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Dphariss on August 19, 2019, 08:37:59 PM
Chris,

Where there is  a huge gap, is the last type of flintlocks, with the 'V' shaped or "U' shaped pans and accompanying refinements.

Nothing is offered as a complete lock I don't think.  (No clue on how these would sell though!)

They sure do work wonderfully, the ones the Mantons and their peers used. The internals were the same as the later high end percussion locks of the 1830-60s.

Dan
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: Acer Saccharum on August 20, 2019, 12:03:41 AM
Exactly and its a PITA and after a time it starts to hurt.

Dan

Polishing, ugh.
Title: Re: Coming soon! Laubach CNC German lock
Post by: westbrook on August 22, 2019, 01:32:17 AM
Here 'tis...

https://firelocksllc.com/1740-german-jaeger-lock