Smoothbore issues

[northmn]

Started playing with my 20 bore smooth rifle.  The stocks is still somewhat in the rough, but I like to make sure things fit and function before final finsih.  My ball mold is an old Dixie with the scissors handle where you cut off the sprue manually.  The balls are also slightly oblong at .602X.605.  thinking I should get a Lee mold as I doubt a smoothbore can really be accurate with filed down sprues and an oblong ball, even when I load the parting line the same way each time.  Haven't benched it yet as it shot quite high and I worked the rear sight down to hit the paper.  Browning the barrel now.  No vent liner yet, but for some reason things got a little messy with broken off bits and instead of a .70 hole I ended up with a 5/64 or .78.  It seems to work with that large of a hole but I wonder if it may not be a little large even for a 20 bore.  The old Dixie catalog used to recommend a 3/32.  Really thought I would try no liner in it, but it does seem a little large.

DP

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

You'll just have to try it and decide for yourself.  I wouldn't worry about the ball if it's as close as that to round.  If you use enough powder, you'll find it accurate enough to 100 yds to kill deer or moose.  I shoot 85 grains FFg as a standard load, and ring the gongs at 109 yards more often than not.

[roundball]

Plus, even with a perfectly round ball...I assume there's a couple thousandth's distoration at ignition / set-back time anyway

[Roger Fisher]

Well you haven't lived til you shoot that smoothie in the matches that allow no rear sight!~!

The careless use of a copper pick grew my touchole to a 5/64 (with a little shove a 3/32nd would have gone in) started shooting low and losing 2 f out of the vent.  (bummer) Replaced the vent and chucked out the copper pick.  I only pick her now when she demands it!!  In any case I would go with the 5/64th with enough black stuff she should shoot just fine with good ignition also....Mine happens to be a 28 gauge.

[Daryl]

.602x.605 is as accurate as most every one of my rb mould - Lyman, Lee, RCBS or Tanner.  Only my .311" Lee, .398" LYman (supposed to be .395") and the .400" DC Lyman cast round balls. The DC .400" mould only does that with one cavity - the other casts .395" x .400"- that one cavity will enlarge groups by 2 1/2 times at 50 yards, so the mould is a heavy single cavity for me.
Being out up to .003" in a .62 will probably make no difference in a rifle, let along in a smoothbore- in my opinion, that is.

[northmn]

I have had a couple of smoothies that I used to shoot in matches that required no rear sight.  People kept buying them from me and I started this one to have another.  this time just for kicks I wanted to have a smooth rifle to see how well sights would work.  Been ecperimenting with Daryls express sight.  They seem to line up very quick.  While the gun kicks it doesn't hurt so I can finish it off in its current configuration as to drop.  I started with 90 gr. (according to the powder measure, not weighed of GOEX 2f)  This will be mostly a hunting gun with possibilites of shot being used on small game.  I was surprised that most molds you checked were also out of round.  I never really checked taht much before?   Old dog keeps learning.  The touchhole does seem to leak any powder.  It would be easy to drill out for a liner but I still wanted to check out whether one is all that needed for my own curiosity.

DP

[roundball]

Well, maybe this will make you feel better...I had an all morning range trip to put the "final" tweaks on the sight settings for my smoothbore PRBs load and after it was all said and done it was a complete waste of gas, powder, patch, ball, and I ended up ruining a set of sights in the process...have to order/install a new set and start all over again.
 

I thought I needed to open the rear notch wider to get better visibility with the front sight...and in the course of doing so kept filing first one side then the other to try and keep the notch centered / balanced...and became so engrossed in the balancing part that I lost track of just how wide the notch was becoming until it was too late.  And now...if I'm careful...I can push a lawnmower through the notch without hitting either side  !!!!!!!
 
(This is why I don't try to "build" a muzzleloader !!)

So, off to TOW's website I go...

[northmn]

I am really getting attached to the express sight style.   Have a modified version on my squirrel rifle and have filed it in on the smooothbore.  No notch just a super large V.  I really think that it will work good using shot even on occaisional flying targets.  As for roundball use, they permit me to use open sights as the fine sights for targets just don't cut it anymore.  I kept shooting high a couple of years ago because I could not see them in the field like I should.

DP

[northmn]

Got the barrel browned and took it out again and roughed it in at about 25 yards so I can haul everything out to the bench and try it out properly.  Ordered the Lee mold as it was just a PITA to cut the sprues using the Dixie mold.   The Lee mold throws ball that are 602x604 max, with some 602x603. Probably will not matter but we will see.  May mark the mold so that I have a reference point to load all ball the same like BPC shooters do.  Rifles are more forgiving so that some of this is not needed as much.  Want to test it out to 75 yards or so.  Have to try some shot out of it also.  Maybe some day I will get to finish up on the stock.  One good thing about walnut is that if you do not stain it its easy to refinish.

DP

[Daryl]

When I take things seriously, I align the patch weave and mould line on the ball the same way, every time.  I did just that for last summer's 200 yard match run by Candle Snuffer.  When checking the sights, I'm sure the aignment helped with the 1 1/4" x 3 1/2", 6 shot group I managed off the bags at 200 yards.

I am not certain it will help much with a smoothbore, but then, you just never know. Generally speaking, everything you can do to improve consistancy in loading and shooting, helps.

[Roger Fisher]

When I take things seriously, I align the patch weave and mould line on the ball the same way, every time.  I did just that for last summer's 200 yard match run by Candle Snuffer.  When checking the sights, I'm sure the aignment helped with the 1 1/4" x 3 1/2", 6 shot group I managed off the bags at 20 yards.

I am not certain it will help much with a smoothbore, but then, you just never know. Generally speaking, everything you can do to improve consistancy in loading and shooting, helps.

20 yds or 200   You did mean with a rifle?

[Daryl]

yes - 200 and yes, with a rifle.  I did mention I wasn't sure it would help with a smoothbore, but I do feel it certainly couldn't do any harm.  The smoothbore should be good for 1" to 1 1/2" at 25 to 30 yards for 5 shots - maybe 35yards with 2 sights.

[BrownBear]

I should probably start a separate thread for this, but since there are some notable smootbore brains here, I'm going to pose a question:

Is there any record of muzzleloading smoothbores for something like the "kicker" used by contemporary air soft shooters to increase accuracy and range?  After all, they're shooting "round balls" down smooth bored barrels, so the parallels would seem natural. 

I'm asking out of ignorance because I don't shoot air soft, and I barely rise to the level of duffer with black powder smooth bores.  But I have a nephew who's very serious about air soft, and the kicker does amazing things for extending the accurate range in the guns he builds.

[Lynn Cook]

Uh - what's a kicker?

Totaly outside the scope of my admittedly old text

[BrownBear]

Uh - what's a kicker?

Totaly outside the scope of my admittedly old text

Boy, it's darned near beyond my understanding too, especially coming from an 18-year old computer whizz.

As I understand it, it's a little "bump" somewhere in the top or bottom of bore that causes the ball....er, pellet.... to have top spin or bottom spin coming out of the bore.  Not sure (okay, can't remember) which it is.  All I know is that when he shot without the kicker the ball "knuckleballed" all over the place as velocity dropped.  You could watch it through the scope.  With the kicker at work, the ball easily doubled or tripled it's range before the knuckleballing started. 

I can't see how it could be done in a muzzleloader unless it was a dimple at the muzzle, but it sure set my lead ball thoughts on fire.  If it worked, I could easily see it being an effective "cheat" for smoothbore matches.