Author Topic: Need help to identify percussion cap rifle  (Read 13417 times)

rickntally

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Need help to identify percussion cap rifle
« on: September 02, 2010, 07:35:01 PM »
Sig Photo Modified... Nord


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I have been given the family rifle and need help in identifying the place of origin and gunsmith. Belonged to a great-grandfather originally from Ohio. Has hung up on a wall in Miami for 55 years. Probably a .32 caliber. Can not make out signature. Please let me know what details you need as this is a new area for me. Maybe you can look at the photos and help us out. Thank you in advance.
Rickntally






« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 10:20:18 PM by nord »

scooter

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Re: Need help to identify percussion cap rifle
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2010, 08:55:16 PM »
1. try taking a rubbing. use onion skin or similar paper. 2. any chance it reads J FORDNEY? Best I can do from photo. If so I have loads of info.

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Need help to identify percussion cap rifle
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2010, 08:58:31 PM »
Welcome RicknTally

That is a great family heirloom!!A little brushing or light rubbing with steel wool might bring up the signature. Perhaps better would be to lay a cheap piece of printer paper over the signature and rub the top with the side of a soft lead pencil....  What's in the patchbox??
De Oppresso Liber
Marietta, GA

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Offline nord

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Re: Need help to identify percussion cap rifle
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2010, 09:25:40 PM »
Fordney style box missing two sideplates. But the cheekpiece is all wrong I believe. More of a NY style though I wouldn't make that call unless the maker becomes known.
In Memory of Lt. Catherine Hauptman Miller 6/1/21 - 10/1/00 & Capt. Raymond A. Miller 12/26/13 - 5/15/03...  They served proudly.

rickntally

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Re: Need help to identify percussion cap rifle
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2010, 12:13:34 AM »
Thank you for your interest. In the patchbox is just one remaining patch. Will try some rubbings and post some photos.

BGC

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Re: Need help to identify percussion cap rifle
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2010, 12:27:35 AM »
Do you know where in Ohio your grandfather came from? 

rickntally

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Re: Need help to identify percussion cap rifle
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2010, 02:21:36 AM »
Here is a high contrast shot of the signature with white chalk. I do have high resolution of all the photos but they are stripped down for submission to this forum.

msmith

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Re: Need help to identify percussion cap rifle
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2010, 03:14:06 AM »
Looks like a J. F.  in real nice script. Then the rest of it looks less neat.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 03:18:22 AM by msmith »

Offline nord

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Re: Need help to identify percussion cap rifle
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2010, 03:26:59 AM »
Gentlemen -

Have a look at the enhanced signature added to the first post.
Nord
In Memory of Lt. Catherine Hauptman Miller 6/1/21 - 10/1/00 & Capt. Raymond A. Miller 12/26/13 - 5/15/03...  They served proudly.

Offline Spotz

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Re: Need help to identify percussion cap rifle
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2010, 03:38:21 AM »
Fondersmith?

msmith

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Re: Need help to identify percussion cap rifle
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2010, 03:41:45 AM »
Could it be P F Charpie ? There is a gun on page 56 of Volume III Ohio Gunsmiths & Allied Tradesmen that looks like it.Nearly identical patchbox, and cheek rest,trigger guard and similar butt plate.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 03:46:09 AM by msmith »

rickntally

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Re: Need help to identify percussion cap rifle
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2010, 01:18:26 PM »
Here is the signature converted to Black & White and then reversed. Thanks for all the help.


Added by Nord 9/3/10 7:57 a.m.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 02:58:05 PM by nord »

rickntally

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Re: Need help to identify percussion cap rifle
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2010, 02:20:43 PM »
As to where the rifle came from, the family story says its belonged to my great-grandfather from the Dayton, Ohio area. He was given the rifle at age 9 and at age 11 yellow fever took his parents, brother and sister. He went to the orphanage but took the rifle with him. I believe the rifle then traveled to Griffin, GA after the Civil War then to Atlanta and finally to Miami.

Offline ptk1126

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Re: Need help to identify percussion cap rifle
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2010, 03:27:38 PM »
I agree with msmith that the signature looks a lot like "P F Charpie" and the gun he references
has a lot of similarities.
I have a Charpie with a signature that is very similar although difficult to make out.
I will try to take a picture of the signature and post later.

All the best
Paul

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Need help to identify percussion cap rifle
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2010, 05:49:09 PM »
Some different suggestions for reading signatures:

1.Go to your local auto parts store and buy a can of PB Blaster.  Sharpen a popsicle stick so it looks like a dull flat chisel.  Apply a bit of the Blaster to the signature and burnish it with the stick.  Repeat several times, wiping between applications.  This will remove the mung imbedded in the engraving, but will not harm the finish or patina.

2.  Rub the signature with a yellow tire marking crayon.  Alternatively, use a crayola or white chalk.  Rub off excess.  Media will remain in the signature making it easier to read.

3.  Make a "pull."  Engravers do this to copy engraving.  Smoke the part, or fill with India ink wiped off as above.  Place a piece of clear tape over it and burnish.  Quickly pull tape off.  Stick it to a piece of clear mylar or transparency.  Scan it into your computer at 2X-3X.  Many multi-purpose printers or copiers allow you to do this.

4.  Lastly, instead of looking at the signature dead on, examine it with a magnifying glass, from the side at a low angle....less than 45 degrees.  The detail is enhanced by foreshortening and becomes more readable.
Dave Kanger

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rickntally

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Re: Need help to identify percussion cap rifle
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2010, 08:59:44 PM »
To ptk 1126 thank you for comparing the signature with your rifle. Would love a photo of yours. And to TOF I have the can of PB Blaster and will try your suggestions. And a big thank you to MS Smith who suggested the name of P F Charpie. Found the article about him from 1991 and quickly found his son, the great-great-great-grandson of Charpie. They have a rifle and will compare the signatures with their rifle.

Will keep you informed. Thanks to all and have a great holiday weekend.

Offline nord

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Re: Need help to identify percussion cap rifle
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2010, 10:12:55 PM »
Look again at the first post. I've enhanced another sig view.

Nord
In Memory of Lt. Catherine Hauptman Miller 6/1/21 - 10/1/00 & Capt. Raymond A. Miller 12/26/13 - 5/15/03...  They served proudly.

Offline JTR

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Re: Need help to identify percussion cap rifle
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2010, 11:40:54 PM »
Nice rifle!
I see the initials as G  F , and the first letter of the name as either a K or a C.
I think with a little luck the name will come to light.
John
John Robbins

rickntally

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Re: Need help to identify percussion cap rifle
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2010, 06:53:59 PM »
Thanks to ptk1126 for his photo of his Charpie. Sent it with my photo to the State Museum here at the Capital. They feel they are the same. The great-great-great-grandson of P. F. Charpie is verifying it with his one rilfe.

Again thanks to all that responded. First time using a forum. The curator at the Museum recommended I duplicate the rifle and have some fun. May just do that.

RicknTally