Author Topic: Vinegar and Iron  (Read 51419 times)

Offline Paddlefoot

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Re: Vinegar and Iron
« Reply #75 on: November 23, 2008, 08:00:47 PM »
Some is Heinz and some is Albertson's or Von's store brand.
The nation that makes great distinction between it's warriors and it's scholars will have it's thinking done by cowards and it's fighting done by fools. King Leonidas of Sparta

Offline LynnC

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Re: Vinegar and Iron
« Reply #76 on: November 23, 2008, 09:38:41 PM »
I'm using cheap "Piggly Wiggly" brand white vinegar  ;D - Works great!.........Lynn
The price of eggs got so darn high, I bought chickens......

Mike Krall

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Re: Vinegar and Iron
« Reply #77 on: February 05, 2009, 04:42:04 AM »
I've got a couple of questions...

Would pure, 99.7% acetic acid (16oz.) and iron filings (what amount???) be a good base for this stain or won't the same chemical reaction happen? Seems like a person could make a large amount of base stain this way.

The variation in color based on wood chemistry... If the stain used is "ferric", being red toned, what kinds of changes would a person see if the wood had a flood coat of concentrated tea applied (and dried) before hand?

Mike

Offline Long John

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Re: Vinegar and Iron
« Reply #78 on: February 05, 2009, 04:56:40 AM »
Mike,

I doubt that 99% "pure" acetic acid is obtainable.  "Glacial acetic acid" is the most concentrated form generally available and it runs around 40%.

In order for any acid to work it must have sufficient water to permit the formation of hydronium ions H3O+.  It is actually the hydronium ions that do the work.  Consequently, don't think that by using a more concentrated form of acid that you will get a more vivid color.  It doesn't work that way.  If the acid is too concentrated it will just char and weaken the wood when it is applied.

In a 1/2 gallon jug of commercial, off-the-shelf white cider vinegar I would use a length of unplated, rusted barbed wire about 1 foot long.  That should give you enough iron to get nice color.  I suppose you could use wine vinegar if you wanted.  I have never tried that.  I usually use the stain to whisker my stock so I generally apply 3 coats, de-whiskering well between coats.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

Mike Krall

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Re: Vinegar and Iron
« Reply #79 on: February 07, 2009, 07:58:04 AM »
John,

OK, I get it... and I appreciate the effort. Teaching well is an art. Starts with knowing a thing correctly and sometimes is like driving nails in oak... requires concentration on the task and follow though. Thank you.

If a concentrated black tea solution were applied to maple and dried prior to applying vinegar/iron stain, what would you expect to see? 

Mike

PS  http://secure.sciencecompany.com/Acetic-Acid-Glacial-16oz-P16220C0.aspx
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 08:00:07 AM by Mike Krall »

Mike Krall

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Re: Vinegar and Iron
« Reply #80 on: August 07, 2009, 05:03:38 AM »
Well, I made up a batch of V/I with white vinegar and rusted barb wire. Put in more than one length of the wire and let it set 4 months. Filtered it through a paint filter and didn't get any residue to speak of. Let that set for a few days and took some off the top. It had a fair amount of black specks in it and looked muddy when applied to maple. Filtered the batch again, this time through a coffee filter. It is a lot clearer and is not as muddy looking.

I tested the stain this way:

1-4 applications on maple and maple washed with strong tea solution (6 bags per cup). The tea was left to dry before applying V/I stain. There were four concentrations of V/I... full strength, 3parts V/i & 1 part cider vinegar, 2 parts V/I & 2 parts cider vinegar, 1 part V/I & 3 parts cider vinegar. All applications were dried before additional applications.

I expected to see significant darkening with each application (1-4) but did not. I expected to see distinct differences between stain on bare wood and on tea stained wood but I didn't. I expected to see color change with various dilutions from full strength to 1 V/I & 3 vinegar and very barely did.

What is wrong with my expectations?

Mike

PS ~ I've got a batch of 1 V/I & 6 vinegar aging now but it will be days before I'll know if more dilution will get me red/brown or red/orange.