Author Topic: Planning 2nd build  (Read 8729 times)

LURCHWV@BJS

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Planning 2nd build
« on: December 17, 2010, 07:33:53 PM »
  I am anxious about my next build.  Have towait for income tax time.  But I need help with a small prblem.  I am plannig a Virginia Rifle with a 48in barrel.  I am going to use a pre-shaped stock to help me understand the arcitecture a little better.  Problem is  everyone I've found with pre-shaped stocks only havebarrel channels of 44in.  Can anyone steer me in the right direction?


Rich

Birddog6

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Re: Planning 2nd build
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2010, 07:46:09 PM »
Call whoever you are going to get the stock from & ask them to carve you one 46" long. May cost a few $ more but if that is what ya want, do it.


I suggest you get all of the parts for the stock from the stock supplier, so the stock is preinlet to fit the trim correctly.  Otherwise, you sometimes end up with boat parts for a lawnmower ?  ::) so to say.......  May be called the same thing. but not fit or look correct.
 ;)
Keith Lisle

Offline sz

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Re: Planning 2nd build
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2010, 07:56:36 PM »
Rich

Maybe you should consider building from a blank.  It's not as hard as you might think.
I can coach you through the project if you'd like.  Advice is free.
:)

Offline bgf

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Re: Planning 2nd build
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2010, 08:19:02 PM »
Why insist on a 48-inch barrel?  Given the reasoning behind the build, why not just use everything off the shelf and focus on building a good solid rifle?  42 inch is commonly available, and 44 isn't that hard to find.  I don't think either would have caused many snickers in the old days.   

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Planning 2nd build
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2010, 08:53:51 PM »
Rich is a tall guy and I'm sure a 48" barrel would fit him well.  But maybe there's no need to make the second bild harder or more complicated than you need it to be.  Unless you have a 48" barrel in hand, it can often take 6-18 months to get a custom one made.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: Planning 2nd build
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2010, 10:43:15 PM »
48" straight ???   Holy Kats.  Careful she isn't too nose heavy.  Been there. ;D

You might be an ol man til you get the barrel (or do you have one such?)

Offline G-Man

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Re: Planning 2nd build
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2010, 11:48:03 PM »
You can try David Keck at Knob Mountain Muzzleloading.  He has a really nice looking "Early Virginia" stock pattern now from which you could make a wide range of styles, and I think he will do extra long barrels.  Go to their website and you can see his stock patterns.   He would need to have your barrel in hand to cut the inlet. 

Guy
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 11:49:00 PM by Guy Montfort »

billd

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Re: Planning 2nd build
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2010, 12:40:12 AM »
To add to what Guy said, Dave has three or four different Virginia patterns.   

Rich, Do you have a barrel?  You need that first.  48's are going to be hard to come by. Rice should be able to get you a 46 without too much of a wait.

Bill

LURCHWV@BJS

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Re: Planning 2nd build
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2010, 03:01:00 AM »
There is a new member on the forum, Dixie. He is a barrel maker from Ky.  He offers 48in swamped barrel in a relitively short time frame at very competitive prices.  As Rich Pierce stated I am tall, 6'6" to be exact. So a 48in barrel would suit me fine. As for starting from a blank,  Remember " Frankenstien"  Been there.  I don't feel I'm at that stage in my life yet. 

  I will give Mr Keck a call when that time comes.  I have a small obsticale to get around first.  Having Knee surgery Dec 27th  will be out of work a couple of weeks.

  I'm just trying to make plans in advance.  Do alot more than my first build.  That is something I learned.
  As for starting with a pre-shaped there are somethings that cannot be taught on-line... try as we do.


   thanx  Rich

Offline bgf

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Re: Planning 2nd build
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2010, 03:19:37 AM »
I was just concerned that with custom barrrel and stock you would be spending a lot more, which is an issue in case of mistakes -- might make the difference between patching up/living with something you can't comfortably afford to replace and being able to start over relatively painlessly.  Of course, I'm cheap and prone to mistakes, so that's my perspective.   

You are way too tall for the period, however.   Maybe have them chunk off a few inches while in knee surgery:).  Just kidding, I've had several, and they are not fun -- best wishes on the procedure and recovery.

Rootsy

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Re: Planning 2nd build
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2010, 04:44:36 AM »
If I recall Simon Kenton was about that tall no?

Offline G-Man

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Re: Planning 2nd build
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2010, 05:08:33 PM »
Good luck with the knee. 

I have a Fordney pattern stock that Mr. Keck inlet for a 46 inch Baryl barrel.  The inletting is perfect and the piece of wood has outstanding figure.  There is just enough shaping done to point things in the general direction you want to go, but still plenty enough wood that you can remove a bit here or there to alter the pattern.  For example, mine is going to be a Bogle style rifle, rather than a Fordney so I am altering the toeline and there is plenty of wood to accomodate that.  None of the hardware or lock are inlet so you have the chance to use whatever pieces you want.

I highly recommend reading Flintriflesmith's notes on his website as a good jumping off point for a Virginia rifle.  From there, pick a general style and timeframe you like.  There are lots of other good sources of information avaiable but depending on which style you like, folks on here can help steer you towards photos and information on that particular style.  There is a huge difference between an 1810 iron mounted Honaker rifle and an early James River basin rifle, like the "Faber" rifle in RCA, yet both are from Virginia. 

Good luck

Guy

Offline patchbox

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Re: Planning 2nd build
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2010, 10:13:58 PM »
Hey Lurch - Good luck with the knee surgery.................Chuck P.

Offline Tommy Bruce

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Re: Planning 2nd build
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2010, 12:32:06 AM »
There is a new member on the forum, Dixie. He is a barrel maker from Ky.  He offers 48in swamped barrel in a relitively short time frame at very competitive prices.  As Rich Pierce stated I am tall, 6'6" to be exact. So a 48in barrel would suit me fine. As for starting from a blank,  Remember " Frankenstien"  Been there.  I don't feel I'm at that stage in my life yet. 

  I will give Mr Keck a call when that time comes.  I have a small obsticale to get around first.  Having Knee surgery Dec 27th  will be out of work a couple of weeks.

  I'm just trying to make plans in advance.  Do alot more than my first build.  That is something I learned.
  As for starting with a pre-shaped there are somethings that cannot be taught on-line... try as we do.


   thanx  Rich

I saw his barrels at the NMLRA show in West Virginia.  They are as nice as any custom barrel I've seen. I don't think you can go wrong there.
A man can never have too much red wine, too many books or too much ammunition”
R. Kipling

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Planning 2nd build
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2010, 01:48:51 AM »
Rich, Take Guy's advice to heart. He is a wise builder. There are lots of guns called VA out there....but....read Gary Blumfield's site it will save you a lot of mistakes.
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LURCHWV@BJS

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Re: Planning 2nd build
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2010, 12:05:22 AM »
I will check out flintsmiths site for info.  I was also wandering if someone could throw some names of Virginia builder I can research.  I  know of one Sheets,  There hasto be others.

  Thanx in advance

      Rich

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Planning 2nd build
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2010, 12:19:29 AM »
Quote
I have a small obsticale to get around first.  Having Knee surgery Dec 27th  will be out of work a couple of weeks.
Lurch,
I hope you do well with your surgery and be up and around in quick order.
Dennis
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson

Offline G-Man

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Re: Planning 2nd build
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2010, 06:43:16 PM »
Lurch - the Sheets were one of the largest and most prolific gunmaking families in Virginia (including what is now West Virginia) and made a wide variety of guns over at least a 60 or 70 year timeframe in several locations, from the Rev. War era up through the mid 1800s.

The Laucks were also another prolific gunmaking family as were the Haymakers, Spitzers and the Honakers.  They all made very different style rifles.  There were many others.

I would start with Flintriflesmith's website and then if you can get access to Dr. Whisker's books "Longrifles of Virginia" and "Gunsmiths of Virginia" (unfortunately one of these, maybe both are out of print.)  They have a lot of good biographical information and photographs of many guns made in Virginia mostly from the Golden Age and late flint eras.  For early rifles (pre-1790), I would start with the Shumway RCA Volume 2 book, and Mel Hankla's "American Historic Services" and "Kentucky Longrifles"websites.  Also - Wallace Gusler's excellent series of articles in Muzzle Blasts cover topics about a wide range of Virgnia guns. Finally, there are several fine Virginia rifles shown in the Virtual Museum on this website.

Good luck

Guy

Offline Tom Currie

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Re: Planning 2nd build
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2010, 07:50:28 PM »
Rich, One thing I would add and this pertains to any build that you do,  If you want a representative rifle of a specific area, do your research and choose common components used, not always the fanciest or most outstanding trigger guard, patchbox, carving or any other component right down to sights thenselves. 

Frank had that quite fancy trigger guard and for me that was thing that looked out of place.   

Offline marcusb

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Re: Planning 2nd build
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2010, 08:27:47 PM »
I suggest something as plain as a board fence in style but with great wood.

Offline G-Man

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Re: Planning 2nd build
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2010, 03:23:31 PM »
Second on that - there are plenty examples of fine, plain Virginia rifles that were produced by the same gunsmiths who also could make heavily carved, engraved or inlaid pieces. 

While I realize they are not believed to be Virginia rifles, the Jacob Young rifles are a good example of how one gunmaker could produce plain or highly decorated guns to suit the cusotmer's needs and means.  Do a search for the thread with the photos of the Jacob Young rifles that were displayed at the CLA show a few months back (although those appear to have been made west of the mountains rather than in Virginia).  You can see examples of exquisite inlay work, engraving and some carving on some of those guns, yet he also produced a very plain iron mounted gun with no carving or engraving, but with great lines and neat hardware.

There are some basic features that differ greatly from the standpoint of time and location where the guns were made.  Start with a general timeframe and style you like (for example, Rev. War era, "Golden Age, late flint "mountain" style" etc.) and then hone in on a region/maker whose work you like.  You can then select approriate parts to move forward with once you have a concept in mind of what you want your rifle to look like. 

Take a look at the Mike Brooks iron mounted rifle on the Blog spot yesterday.  There is a plain rifle that stands on the merit of its architecture and workmanship.  Such a rifle could easily represent a piece made in Southwestern Virginia or nearby areas of the southern Appalachians in the 1810-30 timeframe. 

Guy


Offline Bill of the 45th

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Re: Planning 2nd build
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2010, 04:32:52 PM »
What, Guy said, then consider this for a plan.  Figure out which rifle you wish to build in the style of.  Line up your 48' barrel from the maker, then give Dave Keck a call, he has all of Fred Millers profiles, and can profile a plank from the lock mortice back, and cut you the long barrel channel, with or without the lock mortice.  Dave also has about the best correct brass out there.  If you get it planned out right you can have t barrel sent direct to Dave and save a couple bucks on shipping, so you can buy Bright eyes some flowers, and the kids a Baby Ruth. :D  PS you might give Dave a call and pick his brain for some advice.  Good luck on the surgery, and merry Christmas.

Bill
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mountainman70

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Re: Planning 2nd build
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2010, 12:04:58 AM »
Hey Lurch;good luck with the surgery,and do have a merry Christmas.Gonna send you a PM.Dave