Author Topic: New England Revolutionary War buck & ball Fowler  (Read 7493 times)

YANKEEDROIE

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New England Revolutionary War buck & ball Fowler
« on: January 10, 2011, 05:45:09 PM »
I visited the show in Old Greenwich yesterday and much to my surprise there on a rack was a rifle with everything I had been looking for in a price range of 3K.
The gun is Cherry with some restoration or re guleing I should say where the stock had split up on the barrel . Otherwise there are no issues.
The Lock , marked J TARRATT  has a detached frizzen .
I thought I would share this one with you all to get opinions. My discussion with George Neumann an authority on Revolutionary War weapons gave it his blessing. This is a simple and crude rifle with a drop and nose I have only seen in books. Real pleased to add this to my humble collection. Love to hear from you all with pros & cons.
Thanks .
I added some pictures on the lock and wood , also the barrel.
I don't understand the prick punch marks around the touch hole.  As for as there being a percussion lock , I see no evidence of a filled or plugged hole.
































« Last Edit: January 11, 2011, 06:38:09 PM by YANKEEDROIE »

Offline debnal

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Re: New England Revolutionary War buck & ball rifle
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2011, 06:01:41 PM »
Very nice gun, although probably not a rile.  Looks like a classic New England fowler.
Al

Offline rich pierce

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Re: New England Revolutionary War buck & ball rifle
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2011, 08:14:29 PM »
Thanks for sharing- great attic condition.  Would like to see closeups of lock, sideplate, guard from below, tang, etc.  Agree, not a rifle.  Not sure why some of the images are not showing- they should
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 08:16:47 PM by richpierce »
Andover, Vermont

Offline JV Puleo

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Re: New England Revolutionary War buck & ball rifle
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2011, 09:24:22 PM »
I am inclined to think its later - probably closer to 1790 despite its archaic look. I'm basing that impression on the lock which looks to me like a typical post-Revolutionary B'ham export product.
Also, I can't remember ever seeing the word "warranted" on a believable Revolutionary War lock although this became something of a "catch word" on everything in the post war period.

However, the waters here are pretty muddy. Beginning with CW Sawyer at the turn of the century, many post-Revolutionary guns have been attributed to earlier dates. Even if we've been able to sort our some specific instances of this, the collective notion of what a Revolutionary War period gun should look like is still influenced by authors who were working with far less data than we currently have. There isn't even much evidence that significant numbers of English-made locks were exported to the colonies before the war. It appears that it was far more common to export whole guns, that the market was dominated by the London trade (not B'ham) and that assembled American guns, as often as not, reused parts from older guns rather than being made from new imported parts.

msmith

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Re: New England Revolutionary War buck & ball Fowler
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2011, 11:23:56 PM »
The two brass side plates, look like New England 1800's...What I have been seeing in books seems they started using those Oval & Comma" or Oval & Comet"( yours modified oval) around 1800,seems the earlier ones were one piece...Of course they may have used them earlier.I have not seen a lot in person so I may be wrong. I do like the gun..Congratulations on a neat old New England Fowler...I am starting to appreciate them as much as rifles.Thanks for posting...M Smith
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 11:28:25 PM by msmith »

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: New England Revolutionary War buck & ball Fowler
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2011, 02:55:50 AM »
Looks like an early - maybe prewar triggerguard, barrel? and buttplate with a 19th century lock and lock washers,,,  Actually I don't mean to be unkind .. it just looks anachronistic to me... I do like the looks of it though!
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Offline A.Merrill

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Re: New England Revolutionary War buck & ball Fowler
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2011, 03:01:35 AM »
     Very nice find. Thanks for the pic's.    AL
Alan K. Merrill

Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: New England Revolutionary War buck & ball Fowler
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2011, 03:24:59 AM »
Pros and cons - alrighty.  JMHO, take it or leave it.

I like the gun a lot - it SCREAMS old New England and it's a very attractive shape!  It also has a wonderful patina and has been *mostly* left alone.  I feel positive I've seen it before, maybe a number of years ago up at Ticonderoga.

The lock has been reconverted from percussion, and not particularly well.  A better job could be done.  Given the lockplate (looks original) and the sidepieces, I'd personally put it right around 1800.  Possibly the sideplates were added later and originally it was made w/o a sideplate, but if it was done in it's working lifetime, there would probably be no way to tell now.

It's a really cool NE gun - definitely worth a smile or two!
Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government!

Offline WElliott

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Re: New England Revolutionary War buck & ball Fowler
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2011, 03:32:57 AM »
I would agree with several posts above that this is a New England fowler made ca. 1800 and that it seems somewhat anachronistic for that period, suggesting perhaps that it was made by an older gunsmith.  As they say, -  it was well bought.  Congratulations.
Wayne Elliott

Offline JV Puleo

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Re: New England Revolutionary War buck & ball Fowler
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2011, 04:18:25 AM »
I'm not convinced its a reconversion, at least not from the photos. The cock is awkward looking but there is no bridle on the pan... which is correct for 80 or 90% of inexpensive export locks and is a detail about 90% of the re-converters get wrong. Also, the little lines radiating out from the base of the pan look good - another detail that is often obscured. Without seeing the touch hole etc. its hard to judge but this looks to me more like it has some old repairs. In any case, its a very nice gun and one I'd be happy to own.

YANKEEDROIE

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Re: New England Revolutionary War buck & ball Fowler
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2011, 06:39:47 PM »
Added more pictures , may clear up some concerns

Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: New England Revolutionary War buck & ball Fowler
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2011, 07:49:07 PM »
No concerns - you've got yourself a real nice one.  But fwiw, now I definitely think it's been reconverted.  I don;t mean this to take away from it, as most of them have and it's just my opinion.  I could certainly be wrong and I'm basing this opinion on photos.  At the very least, even if it was never percuss-ed ( :D), there are a number of replacement parts on the lock which are not as well-suited as they could be.  But it's all part of the story.
Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government!

Offline DaveM

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Re: New England Revolutionary War buck & ball Fowler
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2011, 03:03:33 AM »
That is a really cool gun!  Thanks for posting photos.  It may be possible that the lock could be a period replacement, perhaps replaced around 1800 or so.  Looking at the mortise shape along the outside edge compared to the rear portion of the lock the inside mortise may have been slightly expanded to fit a replacement lock.  If the screw holes on the side opposite the lock did not quite line up with the replacement lock, the screw holes could have been slightly expanded and the small sideplates used to cover up the expanded holes.  Just a thought and may not be the case, but you may want to check the screw holes by removing the small sideplates and that could disprove this theory.  A large percentage of guns of the era no longer retain their original locks with so many being replaced especially during wartime.  And if the lock was replaced, the gun itself may be pretty early??