Make vs Buy

[northmn]

In the topic concerning underpinning lugs I mentioned that some things are almost as easy to make as buy.  Underpinning lugs for a round barrel was my example but I have a few more that I find about as easy to make or see as an economy.  Front sights are one as I have not purchased one in years, barrel lugs are another.  I am kind of getting there on triggers.  Some inlays. And I have made a bunch of flint style breech plugs, but admit that that is a throwback to my Douglas barrel days.  However, while I may not make a good hourly wage making this stuff it does cut down on the cost of the hobby.  The closer one can get to buying the lock, stock and barrel only the less one pays out for the hobby.  Some even make those.  I have cut down a tree to make my own stock.  May do more now that my brother in law is retired and has his own sawmill.  When people talk about "kits" that is one thing that I shy from them on as their cost is nickeled and dimed up on small parts.  Others must have some stuff they save or prefer making.

DP   

[David R. Pennington]

Like you I like to make as many of the parts as I can, mostly just to see if I can. One of my current projects is a .40 cal. with a 42 inch swamped barrel. The only parts I bought on this piece were the barrel and the lock. (Oh and the screws)  Although I have made a few screws  to get better fit when tuning locks I havn't tried to make a wood screw yet. Probably not really cost effective to make some of the parts by hand if you value your time but really is fun to figure some of these things out. On this rifle I made the nosecap, thimbles, sideplate and toeplate, (all iron mounted). It was my first attempt at hand forging a buttplate and trigger guard, and I also made my first set of set triggers. They are simple set where you must set the trigger to fire but they turned out ok. I forged the plate out of an old wrench and made the triggers out of an old skilsaw blade. Hacksaw blade for return spring and Brownells spring stock for the main spring with homemade screws. Cherry stock from a tree in the back yard.

[Pete G.]

Not to mention that made parts are more authentic that bought. One of my pet peeves is to see casting marks left on a bought replica of a hand made part. Additionally every bought part looks just like the last one. Some things are OK because a lot of the early smiths bought things here and there, but things like inlays, and single triggers are not. The only problem is that most of the commercially available parts are copies of the more commonly seen original stuff. Personally I don't want to spend an hour cutting out an inlay that I can buy for 75 cents, but a couple of hours spent forging a trigger is time well spent in order to obtain a unique part.

[northmn]

We get into another issue in modifications.  Sometimes we think the triggerguard is sacred that we purchase but I know Taylor S.  modified a triggerguard for a Kunz rifle he built.  But how many Isaac Haines syled rifles are there out there with 38" barrels?  They are nice rifles but standardized.  There are contributers that have their own casting equipment so that they can make their own furniture in brass.  For an occaisional builder that might not be practical.  Still I go back to $savings by doing so for parts I can make.  Tennessee styled rifles are especially adaptable for that.

DP

[Acer Saccharum]

I make most of my rr thimbles, sideplates, trigger plates and triggers, sights, rr ferrule tips, nosecaps. Mostly because I CAN make them, but also the gun doesn't look like it's covered with store bought parts, looks more handmade in other words.

But when you are doing this for a living, I suspect the ready made parts will save you a lot of time. Back in the day, the smith would use many readily available castings, locks and barrels.

But I don't do this for a living, so I can make as many parts as I like and not have to hold myself accountable.

[bgf]

I think the cost for all of the "iron" furnishings on my current rifle will come to about $10 -- that's about what you might pay to some outfits for the magic 3/32" pins.  But cost is not really at issue here--what I like is that I can make things exactly the way I want.  People have already talked about it, but you are limited in your options by castings, and it takes as much expertise and work to turn them into something that resembles an original as to make one in many cases.  Plus, there's not other way to get a "handmade" look than to make it by hand -- I think this actually may be considered a downside for some people who demand perfection .  I'm still hating the triggerguard process in some ways -- but once I got it roughly filed and laid against the stock, I started thinking about the next one and improvements, etc.

PS (to Northmm, esp.): I don't see why brass TG's are always cast -- they could be made from bar and sheet more easily than the iron ones.

[northmn]

I think they are cast mostly because the originals were, as in Wallace Gussler's Williamsburg film.  I have seen excellent pistol triggerguards made as you say.  Your finger can fit into them also.  Actually the casting process tends to create a standardization as once the pattern is made it can be used over again and brass is relatively low temp melting as compared to iron.   At the risk of setting some folks off sand cast parts are probably much more original than the modern investment cast units and can be made out of more authentic materials.  They are also a lot more work to finish off.  Still I bet with a bit of filing and work one could make a sheet brass triggerguard that would look pretty good.  As to a buttplate?

DP

[pathfinder]

$40.00+ for set triggers got me thinkin' I may try to make my own! I cut my own stockwood because I love bein' in the woods and have inherited the eye for wood on the "hoof",but the cost of parts has had me making more and more of them,plus it'll leave more dough for good barrels and locks!

[bgf]

As to a buttplate?

I don't see why not -- somebody had to do it originally, I assume, otherwise there wouldn't be castings, or did they make the originals (for the casting pattern) out of something else?  I've often wondered about this in relation to BP's and TG's as well -- i.e., what percentage of originals were cast and which were made specifically for the rifle.  I can see a gunsmith using "standard" cast parts for rifles that he built to average specifications, but making the parts for a special build or odd-sized customer (with money of course!).

[northmn]

I took a pattern and foundary class in school as part of my teacher training (too many years ago)  Patterns are carved out of soft woods like white pine.  If you look close at triggerguards they have what is called draft, to permit the sand to be removed so that the hollow imprint is left to pour into.  A lot of what is cut off is the casting gate where the brass is poured.  There is indication of some trade between gunsmiths.  At the very least I would expect that due to the set up and everything, several guards and buttplates were poured in one day.

DP

[Old Ford2]

To ad to this insanity, may I add, I know I can purchase thimbles, front and rear sights from Track of the Wolf, or others, quite economically. But I would not have that extra personal touch.
If I study a Dickert, and look at the trigger, I know I can reproduce that. I did it!
The breach plug is easy to make.
Even a drum is easy to make, if that is the style you wish to develope.
There was a tutorial sometime back on making your own trigger guard.
A two piece butt plate brazed together should be a no brainer.
So your only limiting factors would be lock, barrel and wood screws.
There is no limit on how far you want to go to express your talents.
Many of  the fellows on this site are amazing and willing to help you to make a truly original piece of history.
Old Ford

[eagle24]

If you are into Iron Mounted Southern Rifles, then you will be limited unless you can make your own triggers, buttplates, & triggerguards.  Just not that many options out there, and no triggers to match what was found on a good number of original East Tn rifles.

[grabenkater]

I am trying to make as much as I can, so I can learn as much as I can about gun building.

[Cody Tetachuk]

Still I go back to $savings by doing so for parts I can make. 

That's an exercise in false economy. Most any custom gunmaker will build you a gun cheaper than you can make it and pretty much all parts can be purchased cheaper than they can be made. For this reason, hobbyists need to realize that building their own guns (and parts) is done for the experience and pleasure, not as a way to save $. Making your own parts, whether you are building to sell or simply for yourself, is, as has been mentioned, done to personalize or individualize the piece, not to save $ because it actually costs MORE to do so.

[Rasch Chronicles]

Cody,

That depends on your perspective. I make a gazillion dollars in Afghanistan. When I try to make an iron  triggerguard, and it takes me 20 hours to cobble together, you could say that compared to what I make an hour it was a colassol waste of my time, and cost me (in terms of my usual hourly rate) what a whole custom flintlock would, and you would be correct.

But, when I dedicate those 20 hours to that project, my valuation of my labor is on a different scale than what you might consider.

Piece of rebar $0.00
Homemade Charcoal $0.00
Hours of Forge and Hammer work $0.00
File work out the whazoo $0.00

Sense of accomplishment when the job is done: $Priceless

I could buy a custom flintlock made to an impeccable standard from any of the fine gunsmiths here. And it is likely that I will at some point in time, but at that point it would be an aquisition for my collection and not necessarily a working piece. The chunk gun I intend to build out of all sorts of stuff will mean as much to me in its place and perspective as the custom will in its.

Best Regards,
Albert “Afghanus” Rasch
The Rasch Outdoor Chronicles™
Hunting Late Season Whitetails!

[Blacksmoke]

Albert:  You make a good point here!   I make every thing myself - lock,stock& barrel, but I cannot make a living at it! no one will pay the price?  However the satisfaction that I get out making all of my parts is compensation enough.    By the way your figured hardwood pieces are on their way to FL. but I had to spend an additional $ 7 out of my pocket to send them - I miss calculated the postage.   Thanks ,
Hugh Toenjes

[David R. Pennington]

Rasch,
Well put.

[Ky-Flinter]

Amen, Albert.  BTW... when you get back, I'd like to buy you a beer.

-Ron