Author Topic: Another J. Maynard New England Rifle  (Read 6188 times)

Offline Majorjoel

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Another J. Maynard New England Rifle
« on: February 07, 2011, 11:15:08 PM »
I just ran across this auction for another Maynard NE halfstock. WOW, what are the odds to find two really nice pieces by the same maker for sale within a week. I've gone my entire life without seeing this makers fine work!          http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=10157310
Joel Hall

Offline Don Getz

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Re: Another J. Maynard New England Rifle
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2011, 01:05:17 AM »
Thanks for the notice, what a neat gun.   Wooden underrib again, love it............Don

Offline Fullstock longrifle

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Re: Another J. Maynard New England Rifle
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2011, 01:37:38 AM »
I usually don't pay much attention to New England rifles, but I have to say that this is a really neat gun.  I especially like the patchbox and toe plate, the engraving on both is nicely done.  Thanks for the heads up Joel.

FK

Offline Curt J

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Re: Another J. Maynard New England Rifle
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2011, 02:10:58 AM »
There is a lot to like about this rifle.  The horsehead finial on the patchbox, double keys, wire inlay, beautiful script signature, that wooden underrib, and more. It appears to me that it was originally flint, but always a halfstock.

Offline Majorjoel

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Re: Another J. Maynard New England Rifle
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2011, 05:07:31 PM »
Just an observation: It seems that most unsigned NE guns that compare with this ones quality are attributed to Silas Allen. I find it very difficult to assume that any attributions regarding NE work comes close to being spot on! S. Allen would be in my opinion the "Haga" of New England. Even with several signed pieces known. It sure makes for another vast study that appears to be at a point of infancy today.
Joel Hall

Offline JV Puleo

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Re: Another J. Maynard New England Rifle
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2011, 08:04:10 AM »
Captjoel...
I believe you are spot on. My own feeling is that unsigned NE rifles are virtually impossible to attribute with any degree of accuracy. There are probably several reasons for this but the most obvious is that there is very little difference in style between makers - and that includes the signed rifles.

Silas Allen was probably the first NE maker to be noticed by collectors. He did run a fairly large operation and had at least 3 or 4 apprentices. (Silas Jr., James Jenisson, Cyrus Buckland and perhaps Maynard) His signed rifles aren't rare but that is no reason to attribute unsigned rifles to him. Also, because the name was known early on, perfectly legitimate unsigned rifles were marked "S. Allen" by at least one (and maybe more) unscruplous dealers "enhancing" their wares going back to the 30s. Needless to say, this has further muddied the waters as some of these gun s have been "known" for 75 years now. He wasn't the only Allen either. I have a rifle signed "W. Allen 1817".

And, at the risk of being accused of heresy, I also think it is possible that some or many NE rifles were imported whole or semi-finished from England, and that while made for the NE market, may not have actually been assembled here. (I'm working on proving this... I freely confess that this is only an opinion at the moment although I do have some excellent circumstantial evidence.) There is no question in my mind that they were often made in batches and it is probable that most were made for members of militia rifle companies. During their best period, between 1800 and 1830, there was almost nothing to hunt in NE with a large bore rifle.

Offline Fullstock longrifle

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Re: Another J. Maynard New England Rifle
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2011, 04:53:42 PM »
JV Puleo, you seem to have done a good bit of research on these rifles, what period did Silas Allen work?  Was there an earlier Silas Allen (father) who was also a gunsmith?  Have you ever seen a fullstock Silas Allen?

FK

Offline JCKelly

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Re: Another J. Maynard New England Rifle
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2011, 04:59:09 PM »
Puleo you are going to get a lot of questions about your research into Massachusetts rifles.

The level of workmanship on the two Maynard (signed, anyway) rifles for sale recently appears to me well above most Pennsylvania guns of the time & does seem like English work. E.g., the hook breech & keys.

If they were imported, at least the barrels, from England should there not be some proof marks, likely Birmingham?


Offline Majorjoel

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Re: Another J. Maynard New England Rifle
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2011, 05:38:50 PM »
A bit of Heresy coming from the likes of you Joe I consider "very probable". I know you are a very busy man, but unless you are putting a future book or publication together, (for which I would be first in line to buy) I'd sure love to see a few N.E. examples from your collection. :) hint, hint
Joel Hall

Offline JV Puleo

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Re: Another J. Maynard New England Rifle
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2011, 07:25:06 PM »
I am thinking of doing something on the NE makers eventually but it will have to wait until I finish my current work on the Ketlands. In fact, I'm in England right now and going to the B'ham arms fair on Sunday.
I admit that, thus far, I've struck out in finding slam-dunk documentary proof of the importation of rifles by NE makers. I had hoped to be able to search the incoming foreign vessel manifests in the National Archives but it turns out that the Boston Customs House burned down in 1848 so the records of the most likely port of entry are completely lost. There are other Massachusetts records and I've just started on them but unless someone used a relatively minor port its unlikely I will find anything. However, I already have the proof of English-made rifles being exported to Pennsylvania (despite its large number of local makers) so it isn't much of stretch

As to proof... British law didn't actually require that barrels be proofed if they were intended for export. They usually were but I suspect that was because the buyers expected the guns to be British made and saw the proof as an obvious sign of quality. I think that may have been much less the case with rifles although I'd be thrilled to find a NE flint rifle with British proofs, I'm not hopeful. For those of you that have George Moller's "Massachusetts Military Shoulder Arms", most of the rifles and Mass. militia muskets are/were mine. I did the layout and design of that book and collected some of the illustrations.

As an appendix in the Moller book you will find a transcription of the orderly book of a Massachusetts volunteer rifle company. In a nutshell... the company was organized by wealthy merchants and ship owners at the Exchange Coffee House (the Boston version of LLoyd's Coffee House in London).
At the first meeting a committee was appointed to discover if "sufficient rifles were available in the city to arm the company." A minimum of 62 rifles were required - the minimum number for a volunteer infantry company. Three days later (if I remember correctly) the committee reported that there were, indeed, a "sufficient number of rifles available." That is a lot of rifles for a seaport city in a state where there was practically no "big game" hunting. It certainly suggests something other than a handfull of artist/craftsmen turning out rifles one or two at a time for individual customers. Others (notably Frank Klay) have suggested that most NE rifles were made for militia companies - not for hunting. Not every company had a matched set but rifles that are obviously part of a set are well known. I've had them marked "No. 6" and "62" and I've seen plenty of others that were numbered. Its really hard for me to imagine a shop - even a big shop like S. Allen's, with several apprentices, taking an order for 62 rifles, making all the parts and delivering them in a timely fashion.

A few other observations... generally the quality of NE rifles is higher that Pennsylvania rifles or, perhaps more appropriately, NE rifles are of a quality analogous to the best Pennsylvania rifles.

I have the Allen dates at home but won't be back until mid March. As an example of how confusing this can be, the usual published dates for the Pratt brothers, Alvin and Henry, usually reflect only the last part of their careers - both were actually born in the 18th century and could easily be War of 1812 makers.

Offline JCKelly

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Re: Another J. Maynard New England Rifle
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2011, 06:49:54 AM »
The Maynard rifle on auctionarms sold tonight for $4310.

Offline Majorjoel

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Re: Another J. Maynard New England Rifle
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2011, 02:36:05 PM »
JV Puleo, this may be a long shot but while you're over there it might be worth a look at the shipping industry coming out of Liverpool. It was a very busy port in the 19th century (not sure about the 18th). My G grandfather sailed from there to NY in 1847 aboard the ship pictured in my avitar.
Joel Hall

Offline KLMoors

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Re: Another J. Maynard New England Rifle
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2011, 07:18:08 PM »
JV, might be a long shot but don't forget the ports of Nantucket, New Bedford, Edgartown, and Vineyard Haven. Tons of money in those towns at that time due to the whaling industry. I forget exactly, but IIRC Nantucket was the second or third busiest port in Mass at that time.