Author Topic: Question on draw filing.  (Read 11330 times)

FRJ

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Question on draw filing.
« on: February 18, 2011, 02:25:41 AM »
I got the breech plug out of my barrel today. Had to make some brass vise jaw covers and a piece of brass sheeting to wrap aroung the plug and it came out just like it was supposed to.Checked its depth and the gunsmith that I had install it 40 or so years ago did a great job. Also got to look at the barrel with the plug out and its still as bright and shiny as the day I bought it back then. It is now time to draw file the barrel and I was wondering what you guys did to keep the file flat on the barrel flats?I tried a couple strokes with an old file and it was difficult to keep the file flat. Any suggestions? I am also looking for a good new file to do the job with and no one in my neighborhood (Vancouver Wa) has 12" flat smooth single cut files. Any suggestions on where to order one would also be appreciated. Thanks Frank

Birddog6

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Re: Question on draw filing.
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2011, 02:36:26 AM »
Lowes, Home Depot, Ace Hardware, NAPA, Fastenal, just about any hardware store will have the file. Get a 10" - 12" and get a handle for it. Seems like the ones I saw at Lowes had handles on them.

Starting out, might help to take a black permanent marker & blacken the flat. Lay the file on it crossways & pull it to you, one hand on the handle, one hand on the other end of the file with a piece of leather around it & taped, if you have tender hands. You will see where the file is hitting. Just keep pulling it over & over & where it is not hitting you add a tad of pressure on that side til you see the mark go away. If the low spot is in the middle both sides has to go down.  I file about 8-10" at a time & over lap them.
You don;t put allot of pressure on it or it will load the file & make a score in the flat, then you have to draw file that out.  
You will need a file card to keep the file cleaned out & some chalk helps. If you chalk the file before use it helps the shavings fall out  & not load the file as much.
Try to keep your strokes even & straight so one place flows into another.

Probably a dozen ways of doing it, but this will get ya a start.

Keith Lisle
« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 02:37:39 AM by Birddog6 »

Rasch Chronicles

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Re: Question on draw filing.
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2011, 02:37:52 AM »
Funny you should ask FRJ, we were just talking about that!

Drawfile Tutorial

Best Regards,
Albert “Afghanus” Rasch
The Rasch Outdoor Chronicles™
Big Hogs and Bigger Dogs!!

FRJ

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Re: Question on draw filing.
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2011, 02:52:29 AM »
Yes a tutorial would be nice but with the info I got from the search engine and from Bird dog I think I can hancle it. I'll just go real slow. I find its a lot easier to take material off than to put it back on. Frank

Offline Pete G.

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Re: Question on draw filing.
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2011, 03:29:09 AM »
I think that "reasonably flat" is OK. Remember that these things are handmade, not mass produced by a machine. It sounds like this is a barrel in an existing rifle. Be careful on the sides of the barrel because you can create a gap between the wood and metal a lot quicker than you would think.

omark

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Re: Question on draw filing.
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2011, 05:55:24 AM »
first off, clamp your barrel so you can stand directly in line with it and equal weight on both feet, stand straight and try to keep the barrel centered between your hands and pull the file directly to you.  imho
mark

Offline Don Getz

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Re: Question on draw filing.
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2011, 07:45:59 AM »
This is how Bob Paris showed me how to do it.   Lay the file on the barrel, handle to the left, and place the index fingers
of both hands right in the middle over the barrel flat.   The file will just kind of settle on the flat, then grasp the file with
your other fingers and thumbs and start pulling.   Do not grasp the file with your whole hand, it is merely a finger job, try
it and you will see what I mean........easy..........Don

Offline rick landes

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Re: Question on draw filing.
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2011, 04:29:44 PM »
Brownells makes a wonderful 10" flat file for around $8. I have tried quite a few different brands and their offering seems to be the best.
“No free man shall ever be de-barred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson

Michael

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Re: Question on draw filing.
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2011, 04:52:58 PM »
Don't use a file card to clean the file when it loads up. Tap it on the vice to knock out any loose filings and use a thin piece of brass to clean the grooves. I use a piece of  brass weatherstriping for doors. It is about an inch and a half wide and probably .016 thick. Use it like a chisel and push it parallel with the teeth on the file, this will dig out any sticking metal chips.

keweenaw

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Re: Question on draw filing.
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2011, 04:58:01 PM »
Look at the posting called request for a tutorial.  One thing that will definitely cause you problems is using an old file.  New and sharp is the way to go.  But not all new files will be good as some will load and pin the surface.

Tom

Offline Artificer

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Re: Question on draw filing.
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2011, 08:49:15 PM »
We had to draw file the sides and backs of the recoil lugs we welded onto NM M14 receiver’s at the RTE Shop at Quantico.  These surfaces had to be DEAD flat so they wouldn’t hang up on the bedding when taking the receiver out of the stock.  We checked them by placing a precision ground block on them and if we saw light between the block and the surface, they weren’t flat enough and had to be draw filed some more.  That ground block was one of the most hated items in the shop because it never lied.  Grin. 

The way I draw file is sort of a combination of how Don Getz and Dphariss do it, though I don’t use a plexiglass file.  First I file it the way Don mentioned, then I wrap garnet paper around the file and hold it tight on the file with the two fingers Don mentioned.  That way you don’t get the buckling you can get with the plexiglass and you don’t have to worry about scarring the surface if you lift the edge of the file. I’m not saying Dphariss is wrong, but I have tried that and it didn’t work for me.

Someone correctly warned about draw filing the sides of a barrel that has already been inletted.  Drawfiling will open up the space between the barrel and stock REAL quick.  MAYBE I might draw file just the portion that rises above the stock, but if you REALLY want to do that, learn to draw file on the top three sides first.   . 

I also taught draw filing to our OJT’s (apprentices) so I have a few more tips. 

1.  Take a piece of the barrel you cut off (if you did) or another piece of another barrel to practice your technique till you get it down pat.  Lacking that, a piece of un hardened scrap steel is a good way to learn.  (I learned to draw file by filing a piece of 3/16” 01 tool steel into a knife blade, though I will NEVER do that again. Grin.)  Lacking that, draw file the bottom sides of the barrel first as they will be covered by the stock. 

2.  Do NOT touch the draw filed surface with your bare fingers especially if you sweat a lot with your hands. If you leave sweat on the barrel, that can cause the file to skip or cause you to pin the surface.  I clean the surface with a paper towel dipped in acetone and should I even think I touched it, I clean it again.   

3.  Start with SHORT strokes first, maybe only an inch or two until you develop the feel for it and GO SLOW.  Make sure the file is in contact with the surface throughout the file cut.  Longer strokes when beginning to learn allow you just too much chance to mess it up and make a wobbling cut surface.  As you learn the technique, you will feel just how long a surface you can draw file before you start to wobble.  Everyone I ever taught had a different length for that and that’s normal and natural.  Just learn how far you can do it and stay inside that length. 

4.  I prefer to lift the file off the surface at the end of the stroke, no matter if you pull or push it.  (I found pushing works better for me, but some folks could control pulling better.)  I don’t like to lightly draw or push the file back over the draw filed surface after the cutting stroke.  I found it was too easy to “pin” or score the clean draw filed surface.  Getting that pin gouge always seems to come right when you are close to having the surface filed and then you have to draw file more.  . 

5.  Here is the “secret” of what I called “Zen Draw Filing” for my apprentices.  You have to THINK about putting more pressure where you want the draw filed surface to move.  Not much pressure, just keep thinking about putting a little more pressure towards that side while you keep the file flat on the surface.  This is important and it really does work.

6.  Maybe when you are first starting out and you have the surface where you think it is flat, but not sure, use some cold blue on the surface.  Just DON’T touch or oil the surface after you cold blue it.  I wipe it hard with a clean paper towel so there is no liquid left on the surface, though.  Try another very light/soft draw file cut to verify it is flat.  If not, the cold blue left will tell you where it is not flat.

Gus

Daryl

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Re: Question on draw filing.
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2011, 09:03:49 PM »
A brass ctg. case makes a good stuck - steel remover for a file's surface, without damaging the teeth. Merely grasp the case in your fingers, point the neck at the file and rub the end of the neck at a  45 degree angle along the direction of the file teeth.  After a short while, the file will make grooves in the brass casing, wider and wider and merely clean a wider path as it 'breaks' in.

greybeard

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Re: Question on draw filing.
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2011, 09:20:32 PM »
Artificer. Thank you so much. Thats the best info on draw filing I have ever read. Wish I had that info 30 years ago. I will have a colerain to do in the near future and am actually now looking foreward to the task Thanks    Bob

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Question on draw filing.
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2011, 09:36:10 PM »


$29.99



Smooth Cutting "Long Angle" Teeth For Sharp, Clean Edges On Any Flat Surface
The "right" file for shaping or recutting flat metal surfaces. "Long Angle" teeth cut only on the draw stroke so metal is removed from the center, high point of the cut first. Maintains or produces sharp, crisp edges on octagon barrels, flat-sided receivers or handgun side plates and frames. Double, safe sides so you can work right up to rounded surfaces or edges without damage. Parallel shape also makes the perfect flat, hard backing for abrasive paper. Use File Chalk to prevent "pinning" and file wear.

Works great!!

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=548/Product/DRAW_FILE

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Marietta, GA

Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. – William Allen White

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Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Question on draw filing.
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2011, 09:40:28 PM »
Gus,  Try draw filing in a garage in August in GA without getting any sweat on the barrel or file   :o :o  ;D
De Oppresso Liber
Marietta, GA

Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. – William Allen White

Learning is not compulsory...........neither is survival! - W. Edwards Deming

Offline Paddlefoot

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Re: Question on draw filing.
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2011, 10:07:02 PM »
Rub some chalk or corn starch on your hands and that helps a bunch.
The nation that makes great distinction between it's warriors and it's scholars will have it's thinking done by cowards and it's fighting done by fools. King Leonidas of Sparta

Offline Artificer

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Re: Question on draw filing.
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2011, 11:14:30 PM »
Artificer. Thank you so much. Thats the best info on draw filing I have ever read. Wish I had that info 30 years ago. I will have a colerain to do in the near future and am actually now looking foreward to the task Thanks    Bob

Thank you for the kind words.  It's not often I can add something of merit and it is a pleasure to do so.  It was about 30 years ago that I began teaching apprentices how to draw file and build NM rifles and pistols.

Gus

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Re: Question on draw filing.
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2011, 11:21:14 PM »
Gus,  Try draw filing in a garage in August in GA without getting any sweat on the barrel or file   :o :o  ;D

Dr. Tim

LOL.  I know exactly what you mean.  My shop for my first 10 years or so after I retired was an unheated/un-air conditioned detached garage.  I ran fans in the summer and a small space heater in the winter.  It may not get quite as hot here as GA, but the humidity makes up for it.  Grin.
Gus

FRJ

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Re: Question on draw filing.
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2011, 04:27:37 AM »
What  a great site!!!!!! I'm getting far more info than I dreamed of getting and I want to thank everyone for their input. Sure might be enough here if it was condensed and retyped for a sticky. Thanks Again, Frank