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Author Topic: KIK Black Powder  (Read 3682 times)
rudyc
Jr. Member
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Posts: 95



« on: March 05, 2011, 11:13:34 PM »

Hello,

Anyone here have any experience with KIK powder. From the can, it's made in Slovenia-Europe.  I bought a couple of cans at a local gun show last week. 12 bucks per 1 pound can.
I bought it (2F) for use in a couple of my shotguns.

Here is a PDF document about the powder.

http://www.laflinandrand.com/madmonk/KIK.pdf

Thanks,  rudyc
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"It's a good day for something"
Wyoming Mike
Guest
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2011, 07:26:38 AM »

I really like it.  It has a little more power than GOEX and shoots a little cleaner.  Not much but a little.  I use the same charges I do with GOEX.  It cleans up a little easier than GOEX.  Not much but enough to notice.

I got mine in 25 lbs. lots from Powder Inc..  The last order I got was in black plastic containers like those used in Swiss and Sheutzen.
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MikeC
Starting Member
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Posts: 38



« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2011, 10:29:43 AM »

I really like it.  It has a little more power than GOEX and shoots a little cleaner.  Not much but a little.  I use the same charges I do with GOEX.  It cleans up a little easier than GOEX.  Not much but enough to notice.

I got mine in 25 lbs. lots from Powder Inc..  The last order I got was in black plastic containers like those used in Swiss and Sheutzen.
I use it also.  Wyoming Mike pretty much said all there is to say about it.  I'll add one thing about the plastic containers.  The caps threads are not the same as Swiis and Goex so the pouring tops that fir them won't fit the KIK containers.  I pour mine into empty Goex and Swiss containers and throw the KIK containers in the trash.
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Roger Fisher
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Posts: 6805


« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2011, 11:27:53 AM »

In a shotgun it should be fine.

Oh yes, the gypsy music when you crack the can... Grin    Nothing like supporting the over the pond folks..
This was written up in M Blasts 2 or 3 yrs ago.  The writer supplied photos showing that he barely hit the paper at 100 yrds from a good rest w/calm conditions and good light & 75 gr 3 f.  Most shots way low.  Switched 1 thing only (went to Goex) and his group came in just fine. Now then, it could be that if he would have gone to heavy charges he might have been able to get better results.  He came in to 75 yards with the kik showing lousy results and the goex shot tight groups where he wanted them.

Now that was with HIS well worn and used Getz .45. Needless to say he uses Goex now. Happy for the folks that get good results from the kik; but HE could not get even close. Roll Eyes
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hanshi
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Posts: 1327



WWW
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2011, 12:25:31 PM »

Talk about divergent results!  I, for one, would like to hear more about Kik and those who've used it.  It's even a bit cheaper than Goex, which I like a LOT.
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!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.
William Worth
Sr. Member
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Posts: 415


« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2011, 03:52:42 PM »

I thought "KIK" went under, "kicked" the bucket so to speak. Roll Eyes
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Roger Fisher
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Posts: 6805


« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2011, 03:58:12 PM »

I thought "KIK" went under, "kicked" the bucket so to speak. Roll Eyes
Gee, maybe more folks decided to buy american.
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Ted Kramer
Full Member
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Posts: 121


« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2011, 04:29:24 PM »

I've been using a lot of KIK 2fg since 2005/2006 in my cartridge rifles with way, way better results than the GOEX that was made at the same time. It produces far better velocities than GOEX 2ffg or Cartridge grade, and just slightly less than Swiss 1-1/2. With a 390 gr. bullet in a .40-70SS 67gr. GOEX 2fg or Cart gave 1245fps, 66gr. KIK 2fg gave 1305fps, and 62gr Swiss 1-1/2 gave 1330fps. Accuracy was good (for me)with both Swiss and KIK with 200 yard groups running about 2-2.5" for 10 shots. The GOEX was in the 4-5" range at 200 yds. The fouling from the KIK powder is much softer and less of it than with either GOEX or Swiss.

Being more of a BPCR shooter than a ML shooter, I keep the KIK for the cartridge guns and use the GOEX in the muzzle loaders or my shotgun.

I too had heard that KIK went belly up but it's still listed on the Powder Inc. website. I'll try some new GOEX one day and hope it'll do as well as I'd like to use a US made powder.
Ted K.
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Mad Monk
Sr. Member
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Posts: 452


« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2011, 07:36:08 PM »

I thought "KIK" went under, "kicked" the bucket so to speak. Roll Eyes

That was the "word" in the industry a few years ago.

In 2008 and 2009 no KIK BP came into the U.S. from Slovenia.  That was during the period where I had been told that the plant was out of production and in bankruptcy.  Then in 201 somebody brought 173,514 pounds into the U.S.  Landed duty paid value was shown as $2.52 per pound.  Showing that it came into the U.S. packaged in bulk boxes and not the cans that KIK had originally used.
When packed in one-pound cans or bottles the Landed Duty Paid Value is up between $3.50 and $4.00 per pound.

So the question is.  Did the company recover from bankruptcy or did somebody buy powder that had been sitting around in stock since the plant closed?

I had looked at the KIK GOEX had brought into the U.S. in 2000.  Buy the time another shipment came into the U.S. I had quit testing powders except by special request.  The last one of those was GOEX in 2005.  Then I quit shooting black powder completely.

E. Ogre
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Skychief
Sr. Member
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Posts: 277


« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2011, 08:10:40 PM »

Is KOK the same as "Schuetzen"?
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Roger Fisher
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Posts: 6805


« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2011, 08:36:32 PM »

Is KOK the same as "Schuetzen"?
KIK not the same as far as I know.
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Mad Monk
Sr. Member
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Posts: 452


« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2011, 09:56:04 PM »

Is KOK the same as "Schuetzen"?

KIK had been made in Slovenia by the KIK-Kamnik powder company.  This powder company had once been govt. owned making black powder for grenades and land mines.  After "privatization it got into the civilian market.

Schuetzen is made by WANO in Germany.  This powder had originally been worked up specifically for the U.S. market.


E. Ogre
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Mad Monk
Sr. Member
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Posts: 452


« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2011, 11:32:34 AM »

Did some digging on the Internet this morning.

KIK-Kamnik is part of a large company in Slovenia.  Skupina KIK Kamnik d.d.

A large number of "hits" offering the bankruptcy papers/reports at $35 to $50 to download in electronic form.  These papers date to March into June of 2009.

Also some reports on workers strikes in the chemical plant owned by the parent company.  Workers having gone on strike for back wages, holiday pays, etc.

Nothing on the exact status of the black powder plant.

So where the 173,000 pound shipment to the U.S. came from is anybody's guess.  Fresh production, old stock???


E. Ogre
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Daryl
Guest
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2011, 01:50:15 PM »

Gosh - my Sharps is only able to make 7/8" to 1" at 100 meters(109yards) for 5 shot groups.  I wonder what it would do with KIK?  I certainly don't expect to ever see it up here- but you never knos. One of the sellers had some Swiss last year, but only 1 can of Null B that he was using. maybe he'll bring some more of the 'good' stuff.

Of course, if you guys who are paying $12.00 per pound for GOEX are having to pay $24.00 for Swiss, what does a guy who has to pay $20.00 to $22.00 for GOEX have to pay for Swiss?  Is it worth it?
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Skychief
Sr. Member
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Posts: 277


« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2011, 07:45:15 PM »

Is KOK the same as "Schuetzen"?

KIK had been made in Slovenia by the KIK-Kamnik powder company.  This powder company had once been govt. owned making black powder for grenades and land mines.  After "privatization it got into the civilian market.

Schuetzen is made by WANO in Germany.  This powder had originally been worked up specifically for the U.S. market.


E. Ogre

Many thanks Sir!
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