Record Price!

[JTR]

Mr no gold and I saw this John Small rifle at the Las Vegas gunshow. It's a grand rifle for sure. He thought it might bring well over the estimate, maybe 80 to 100K. Tightwad me thought mid to upper estimate.

I got an email yesterday with the auction results, and they described the bidding as follows;

"Another exciting bidding battle was for the J.M. Small flintlock rifle with carved stock; estimated at $45,000-$65,000, it was a rare find and finally hammered down at $184,000; believed to be the highest price ever attained for a Kentucky rifle at auction."

Congratulations to the lucky buyer, and I feel fortunate to have had hands on the rifle for a good bit of time at the show. That is when I could pry it outta no golds hands!

John

[jdm]

Don't know if this is true or not. I heard a couple of museums in Indana were trying to buy up some of Mr. Small's work.
   JIM

[cmac]

Any pictures of this rifle?

[Hurricane ( of Virginia)]

I think the Julia Catalogue pictures are still available on the Julia Auction site.

[JTR]

Try this link;

http://jamesdjulia.com/auctions/catalog_detail_shots.asp?Details=41831&sale=303&lot=2500

John

[Steppenwolf]

magnifique!

[Skychief]

Mercy...What a rifle!

[Don Getz]

Am now wondering, will this have an affect on the pricing of all "good" kentuckies?....Don

[jdm]

  Don,   The odd thing is it doesn't have an effect when I am selling one . It sure does when I go to buy . Strange very strange ?    JIM

[cmac]

Incredible! Is the box release on that rifle the tear drop finial ahead of the hinge? For 184k shouldn't the seller have tightened the frizzen roller screw for em         maybe my eye sight is going

[rlm]

For a gun that brings that kind of money you don't touch anything!

[G-Man]

This is the same rifle we were discussing on here a few weeks back.  Man - what architecture!  

Small is in rare company in that not only did he make superb rifles, he is one of the earliest documented American gunmakers working in what was then the "west" - beginning when Vincennes was still an isolated outpost for America, but an area with almost a century of prior French colonial history.  Would love to step back in time and see the variety of his clientel - he apparently made rifles for people like James Girty and Francois Vigo, no doubt there were Natives, hunters and trappers, military, settlers moving west as well.  So his work has a special niche with regard to importance to the history of the Indiana/Illinois Wabash frontier.   To me he is to early midwestern gunmaking what Francis Tansel was to horns.

I find it interesting how different this piece is from the James Girty rifle, which appears to be 1790-ish to me.  The auction rifle looks to be later in style  and evolving to have some similarity to features you see on some early Ohio fullstocks.  The box looks to me to be sort of an early precursor to what would later become the National Road style box.  Yet the lock on the auction rifle looks like the plate shape is a throwback toward an earlier style.  

In any event, a really superb piece.

Guy

[billd]

A very amateurish question.....  Does the trigger guard on this rifle look out of position?  No room for fat fingered shooters?

Bill

[GrampaJack]

I agree with G-Man. I see some Ohio influence there. I still can't help but wonder if there is some connection to the Ohio Small family. Jack

[mr. no gold]

Small was born in Ireland and is thought to have lived for a time in NC where he learned the arts and mysteries of the American Rifle. This piece has much of NC about it and for a time was thought to have been made there. The 'Vincennes' on the barrel tells otherwise. His story remains to be told, but should be. Thus far, this is the best known rifle by him. Others may turn up. No two are alike. He was one of the more colorful individuals on the early frontier.
Dick

[Tanselman]

I have not seen any reference to Small living/working in North Carolina. We do know he was born in Ireland, came to America with his parents to Pennsylvania, and is probably (not known with certainty) the gunsmith recorded in Pittsburgh working on arms during  the Revolutionary War. The Butlers were there, skilled gunsmiths themselves and traders, and there are records indicating Small did gunsmithing work for the Butlers. Perhaps he learned the trade from them, because he was rather young at the time. He may have joined George Rogers Clark when Clark came through Pittsburgh on his way to the Falls of Ohio and stopped to recruit additional men at Pittsburgh to fill his ranks. Some old sources state Small was with Clark on his Illinois Campaign, but it has not been documented. Small apparently had military land warrants to claim land in Vincennes in the 1780-1782 era, but could have gotten them for repairing military arms at Pittsburgh rather than accompanying Clark. We simply don't know at this time. Small was highly skilled as a silversmith, land surveyor, gunsmith, mechanic, mill builder and operator, ferry builder and operator, local businessman...along with being the first sherrif of Knox Co. and captain of the local militia. He had his hands in so many activities that perhaps his gunmaking was limited, and only involved finer arms. His few surviving tomahawks tend to support his work was consistently high class, and the "run of the mill" guns were left to the other local gunsmiths working in & around Vincennes, of which there were several.  Shelby Gallien

[bgf]

Some connection to NC does not seem out of the question when looking at the rifle.  Perhaps the connection was via Lexington, rather than direct.  The patchbox (esp. the finial) looks related to that of the Bryans and others.  Also, the large urn inlay behind the cheek would not be out of place on a "southern" rifle.  The urn itself brings to mind another rifle with an urn finial on the sideplate and a similar patchbox...  Just ignorant speculation on my part.

Looks like the stock pattern was suitable for set triggers, as someone pointed out that the trigger is farther forward than typical in the guard.

[Curt J]

John Small had a gunsmith son, William M. Small, born in Vincennes in 1797, who was working on the Illinois side of the Wabash by 1821. John Small had built a mill there, in what is now Lawrence County, Illinois, in 1807 or 1808. William M. Small's first shop was at Small's Mill, on the Embarass River, about a half mile above the Wabash. He later moved into Lawrenceville, which began to flourish during the 1820's. I have never seen a rifle made by William M. Small, but sure would like to. He was still in business as a gunsmith at the time of his death, on August 4, 1876.

An ad, from the STAR SPANGLED BANNER, Lawrenceville, Illinois, June 11, 1847. reads as follows:

HUNTERS, SPORTSMAN & WARRIORS, the undersigned has removed to Lawrenceville, where he will carry on his business of gunsmithing.  He is prepared to execute to order, guns of every description, from a trigger to a cannon.
County and private seals made to order. William M. Small 11 June 1847.

[Curt J]

For anyone wanting to know more about John Small, there is a book, JOHN SMALL OF VINCENNES, GUNSMITH ON THE WESTERN FRONTIER by Jim Dresslar & Jeff Jaeger.