Author Topic: Rivetting Steel Nose Cap (Read 10905 times)

eagle24 · « **on:** October 30, 2008, 12:10:25 AM »

I have my nosecap fitted and am planning to rivet it to the stock tonight. I'm a little concerned about peening the rivet without dinging the nosecap. How close should I cut the rivet before I peen it? I will be using a soft steel nail for a rivet and planned to use a fairly large drift punch to peen it. Any other advice? Seems like I could use a few more arms and hands for this.

Pratt · « **Reply #1 on:** October 30, 2008, 01:00:52 AM »

A sixteenth of an inch would be too much material just to give you an idea. If when you are done it ends up looking like something you didn't expect, you can always carefully drill the rivet out and do it again.
I am sure you will be countersinking the hole a little, just thought I'd mention that because you didn't.
I have a couple smaller drifts that I knocked the edges off and slightly rounded the face to use for this kind of job, works real good.
If you have room you can carefully clamp the butt end of the gun in a padded vise with the rifle belly up, and set the muzzle end on a hardwood block. Don't mash your front sight if it's installed. Usually I just lean the muzzle end of the rifle on a piece of leather against the corner of my bench top and lean my leg gainst the stock while I work.

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #2 on:** October 30, 2008, 01:49:22 AM »

I use a medium sized ball peen hammer, and start with the round end, working around the outside edge of the rivet with light taps. When metal has begun to flow and the countersink is almost filled, I go to the smooth other face of the hammer, again working the outside of the rivet, and the few final taps are over the centre just to spread it a little, and make the surface rounded. Dress the rivet off flush with the nose cap, and any tiny divots can be filed out.

billd · « **Reply #3 on:** October 30, 2008, 02:06:39 AM »

So your using the barrel as an anvil?

Ken G · « **Reply #4 on:** October 30, 2008, 02:14:37 AM »

Greg,
I've seen several that had what looked to me like a copper or brass rivet rather than steel. That's a softer alternative to steel and it that will peen easier.
Ken

Roger Fisher · « **Reply #5 on:** October 30, 2008, 02:34:07 AM »

Do it with the barrel in after you counter sink your rivet head in to the foreend flat that you are going thru. Also counter sink the outside of the cap slightly. You will be glad you did. I would also (if it were me) use a copper rivet. spreads nicer.. Copper was used way back. carefully dress it down with a very fine file and then paper!

Careful now don't split that thin stock.

b bogart · « **Reply #6 on:** October 30, 2008, 02:44:42 AM »

Heck even I had good sucess with a copper rivet. I use heavy wire found on my construction jobs.
Bruce

Pratt · « **Reply #7 on:** October 30, 2008, 03:03:59 AM »

Billd - Yes you are using the barrel as an anvil, keep in mind this is light work done with a small hammer, using no more striking force than you'd use to stake a barrel staple, maybe less. Doesn't take much to head up a rivet.
The barrel backs up a rivet head you have formed on the opposite end of the pin - inside the barrel channel. You also countersink the hole inside the channel slightly. When you rivet the outer part down, the inner part spreads against the barrel flat and locks into the countersink. Make sense?

Stophel · « **Reply #8 on:** October 30, 2008, 03:09:53 AM »

The only old guns I have gotten to see all have brass or copper rivets (well, all that I noticed, anyway), but they all have brass nose caps. Iron rivets would certainly be fine for an iron nosecap.

Just make sure you have REALLY SOFT iron to make the rivets out of!

I use copper wire generally to make rivets out of. I don't use the barrel as an anvil. I put some chunk of steel like a big piece of round stock or something in the vise to peen the rivet against.

George F. · « **Reply #9 on:** October 30, 2008, 04:02:12 AM »

I'm stretching my memory on this one, but I think I read somewhere it's 1-1/2 times the diameter... How's that sound? ...Geo.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #10 on:** October 30, 2008, 04:04:48 AM »

From the tutorial: One Piece nosecap: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=9.0

note the rivet has a pre-formed head on it, and the wood is already countersunk. put the rivets in from the inside of the channel, put the barrel in, THEN saw the rivets off a little longer, maybe a 1/32 with a jeweler's saw, and clamp the bareel up tight. rivet as Taylor proscribes.

I don't recommend the Pratt method of holding the gun between your knees and clamping the barrel in with your teeth while tapping the rivets with a tire iron.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #11 on:** October 30, 2008, 04:09:32 AM »

If the hole is fairly tight to the rivet, you need very little material for the riveting. Put a slight countersink on the outside of the nosecap holes to receive the deformed steel, and you're in good shape to start riveting.

if you use an 1/8 dia rivet and a 3/16 hole, you're going to need at least 1/8 extra rivet. However, if the hole is .002 bigger than the rivet, you will need only about .02 extra rivet length.

See where I'm trying to go with this?

Acer Sack-o-rum

Ken G · « **Reply #12 on:** October 30, 2008, 04:45:45 AM »

Greg.
I just noticed Acer has already posted part of the tutorial showing two rivets. I have seen a good many nose caps held with two small rivets on the sides (shown in orange) You would not be wrong using one on the bottom either(shown in blue)

eagle24 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 30, 2008, 03:59:39 PM »

Thanks for all the advice guys. Originally, I was planning to use copper as some of you suggested. I cut some short lengths of copper and clamped in a vice to test how easily they peened. I also tested some steel rivets cut from common nails. Much to my surprise, the steel nails peened easier and seemed softer than the copper electrical wire. I got the cap rivetted on last night and it turned out fine, but I may have made a mistake. I finished it before I saw Ken's final post and I used 2 rivets on the bottom of the nosecap rather than on the sides. It never crossed my mind that this might not be corrrect for an original rifle to use 2 rivets on the bottom. I think I will leave it anyway. The cap is tight and in perfect alignment and the rivets filled out nicely in the countersinks in the nosecap.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #14 on:** October 30, 2008, 04:03:49 PM »

GHall, when you use copper, for best formability, it should be annealed. To do this, heat it to a dull red and quench in water.

I a sure copper electrical wire is pretty hard when manufactured, and hardens more whenever it's bent.

Roger Fisher · « **Reply #15 on:** October 30, 2008, 05:39:32 PM »

Quote from: GHall on October 30, 2008, 03:59:39 PM

Thanks for all the advice guys. Originally, I was planning to use copper as some of you suggested. I cut some short lengths of copper and clamped in a vice to test how easily they peened. I also tested some steel rivets cut from common nails. Much to my surprise, the steel nails peened easier and seemed softer than the copper electrical wire. I got the cap rivetted on last night and it turned out fine, but I may have made a mistake. I finished it before I saw Ken's final post and I used 2 rivets on the bottom of the nosecap rather than on the sides. It never crossed my mind that this might not be corrrect for an original rifle to use 2 rivets on the bottom. I think I will leave it anyway. The cap is tight and in perfect alignment and the rivets filled out nicely in the countersinks in the nosecap.

Leave her as is -= good job!! I'm sure there are some originals out there that used 2 rivets on bottom flat as you did!! After all the old boys tried about every thing some good some not so good!

Black Hand · « **Reply #16 on:** October 30, 2008, 05:49:26 PM »

When I attached the nose-cap on my rifle I modified the installation. I drilled and tapped the nosecap and threaded the rivet. I lightly countersunk the outside edge of the hole and screwed in the threaded rivet from the inside using the extra length as a handle (in conjunction with vise-grips) to "screw" everthing down tight. Using a jewelers saw, I cut off the excess and peened the end as needed. A little file-work and the nosecap was in place.

NSBrown · « **Reply #17 on:** October 30, 2008, 10:57:12 PM »

At this time of history were harness makers using rivits...specifially copper rivits? Could this be a source for the pins used on nosecaps?

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #18 on:** October 31, 2008, 01:40:13 AM »

I don't know about "then" but I use them now for that job. They are the right size, already have a slightly countersunk head, which I file square so it can't revolve in the hole, and is easier to inlet into the bottom flat of the barrel channel. Yup, harness rivets...

keweenaw · « **Reply #19 on:** October 31, 2008, 07:03:40 PM »

On copper rivets - simply go to the hardware store and buy them. They're there in the little drawers with all the other assorted small fasteners. Cost all of 15 cents each, no need to anneal and they have a nice flared head you can file down to whatever thickness you desire.

Tom

Chuck Burrows · « **Reply #20 on:** October 31, 2008, 08:35:55 PM »

Quote from: NSBrown on October 30, 2008, 10:57:12 PM

At this time of history were harness makers using rivits...specifially copper rivits? Could this be a source for the pins used on nosecaps?

to part one - yes but brass rivets were reportedly more common......Copper and iron rivets with burrs go back to at least the Roman Empire and were used for horse harness as well as for armour.....

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Author Topic: Rivetting Steel Nose Cap (Read 10905 times)

eagle24

Pratt

billd

Pratt

George F.

eagle24

Black Hand

NSBrown

keweenaw