NMLRA Gunsmithing Seminar - Trade Gun Class and my project pics

[Curtis]

I have been back home from the class for a couple of weeks but haven't had the opportunity to post yet.  I just want to say outright that the class was WELL WORTH the time and money invested, it exceeded my expectations for sure.  Jack Brooks was the instructor of the Trade Gun Class, he is a top notch instructor as well as a fantastic artisan.  From what I could see of the other classes offered, all the other instructors were "Grade A" as well.  The guys in my class were a terrific and talented bunch and it was a fun and rewarding experience working and learning with them!

My project was a Type "G" English trade gun, based on a surviving Wilson gun.  The gun was started from a blank and all components besides the barrel and lock will be hand made.  The barrel is a 46" Getz .62 cal smooth and the lock is R.E. Davis.  I didn't have time to finish the gun in class, but the hard part is done.  The barrel and lock is inlet, ramrod groove cut and hole drilled, thimbles made and the stock is rough shaped.

Anyone who has followed my early Lancaster posts knows I have struggled with forming and shaping lock panels.  I guess all I can say is -  Now I understand!  It is amazing what some hands on training can do!

Here are a few pictures of my project in the works:

Working on barrel channel:



Barrel underlugs:





Formed Thimbles:



Cutting ramrod groove.  Ever use the blank cutoff for a mallet?



Lock plate inlet:



Shaping stock:







Getting closer:













Class is over!



I will post more pics when I get the trade gun finished.  Thanks for looking.

[hortonstn]

curt,
looks like you had a great time, rifle looks like its well on its way ,
hope i can go to one of the classes some day
keep up the good work
paul

[Odd Fellow]

Very nice work! I hope to take one of those clases one day, I hope I can get much better!

Great job so far, cant wait to see the end result!

[rich pierce]

You look like you've got the guns to shape guns!   

[Curtis]

Paul - it was a great time!  Everyone in the class was there to learn, but also to have fun doing it.  If you, Odd Fellow or anyone else have the desire to take one of the classes, I recommend you start planning to make it happen!

Rich- I never knew you could write one liners!    Seriously though, I appreciate the help and tips you gave me when I was struggling with the lock panels.

[M Tornichio]

Curtis,
Thanks for sharing the pictures. Can you explain how the plates work for forming the ramrod pipes. It looks like they imprint the design somhow into the flat brass before forming around mandrel? How does that work. I have never seen that before, but It would save alot of time.
Looks like you have a great gun started. I don't think you would even have to put a buttplate on that thing and it would still look good.
Marc

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Curtis,
Thanks for sharing the pictures. Can you explain how the plates work for forming the ramrod pipes. It looks like they imprint the design somhow into the flat brass before forming around mandrel? How does that work. I have never seen that before, but It would save alot of time.
Looks like you have a great gun started. I don't think you would even have to put a buttplate on that thing and it would still look good.
Marc

Curtis that is very nice and I am looking forward to seeing it finished... It will be one to be proud of no doubt!!

I too am interested in how the forming of the RR pipes is done.  Where can one get such plates and a mandrel like that??

Also interesting that you dovetailed the lugs into the round barrel. How deep are the dovetails and how much barrel wall is left??

[James Rogers]

Where can one get such plates and a mandrel like that??

Also interesting that you dovetailed the lugs into the round barrel. How deep are the dovetails and how much barrel wall is left??

I have made a plate like that from aluminum and cut some of the work in with a table saw and filed the rest. That set looks like steel. I am guessing it was filed mostly?

I am also interested in some more info. on the dovetails.

[Curtis]

Curtis,
Thanks for sharing the pictures. Can you explain how the plates work for forming the ramrod pipes. It looks like they imprint the design somhow into the flat brass before forming around mandrel? How does that work. I have never seen that before, but It would save alot of time.
Looks like you have a great gun started. I don't think you would even have to put a buttplate on that thing and it would still look good.
Marc

The ramrod pipes were made by first cutting sheet brass to size and annealing it.  The brass rectangle was placed on in the dies with the tab material hanging over the appropriate edges, then the "sandwich" was placed in  a vice and pressed together - I stuck half of the sandwich in the vice, cranked it down tight, flipped it over and repeated.  Then place it on an anvil and hit it a few times with a big hammer for good measure while trying to keep your fingers out of the way.  Bend the tabs 90 degrees and take the brass out of the dies, bend it around a mandrel (or 3/8 drill bit) in a vice like you would making a standard thimble.  The dies were hand filed to contour from mild steel stock by Jack Brooks, patterned to match an original Type G thimble.  He said it took him an hour or two to file up the dies if I recall correctly.  Around .010 - .015 brass is appropriate for the type G thimbles, the originals were fairly thin.

I rasped the butt of the gun to match the contours of an original Type G buttplate Jack Brooks had.  When I make my buttplate I will inlet the top extension and form the plate to the butt of the gun.  Here  are some pics of the buttplate:







You can still see the remnants of the original square nails, ain't that cool!

[Curtis]

Dr. Boone and James:

The barrel loops or underlugs were dovetailed like the originals were.  There was some pucker factor involved there because of the barrel wall thickness, but if one is careful it is quite doable.  The lugs are 1/8" tall, the dovetails are approx. 1/32" deep, someone smarter than me will have to do the math for the web thickness remaining, but Jack assured us it would be plenty for a smoothbore and I took him at his word.  The lugs were not soldered, but there is no movement and they are quite strong.  I am sure soldering the lugs on the barrel without dovetailing would be a fine way to do it, however we were interested in building the gun as traditional as possible

[smallpatch]

In my opinion, the Type G (done right) is one of the most comfortable, most slender, graceful, easy handling, most fun guns to shoot.

I built on last year from one of Mike Brooks' "kits".  With a 48" barrel, came in just under 6 lbs.
All the hardware out of sheet brass, installed with square, hand forged nails.

What a delight.

[David Rase]

I have one of Jack's Type G trade guns and it is my new favorite gun.  The one I own was built by Jack.  The stock is beech, painted red and then vine patterns were inked over the paint.  All the brass was hammered out of cast sheet.

Dane, you are right, light weight and handles like a dream.  One of the neatest features of the gun is the unique rear sight.  When I first obtained the gun, I looked at the sight and wondered how it was going to work.  It was too far to the rear for my aging eyes.  Once I figured out how it functioned I found out how well the design worked.  My first shot out of it was off hand at 25 yards and was well inside the 10 ring.  Once again, proof positive that you do not need to reinvent the wheel.  Those old timers knew what they were doing.

Curtis,  If you would like any pictures of my Jack Brooks built Type G gun I would be more than hppy to take some photos and send them your way.  Just let me know.

Dave  

[Curtis]

Dane and David -

You both are dead on about the lightness and quick handling of the Type G.  I was interested in the gun before the class and now I am fascinated with them!  A person has to handle one of them to understand!

David, I would love some pics of your Jack Brooks built Type G.  I will P.M. you with my email address.  You could also post them here if you would care to share it with others interested in the Type G's.

Thanks!

[smallpatch]

David,

When I built mine, Mike didn't have the rear sights.  I just never got around to putting one on it.  I still may.  I guess the only way is to make one???

[mattdog]

Dave,

I would also like to see some pictures of your J. Brooks Type G and of the rear sight.

Please....

Matt