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Author Topic: 3F / 50 Caliber Loads  (Read 3347 times)
Kopfjaeger
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« on: July 17, 2011, 06:26:09 PM »

I know this subject has been covered before.  All you fella's out there shooting 3F powder out of a 50 caliber / 42" long /  7/8 wide / green mountain barrel would you please share with me your load information. Like grains of 3F powder used, patch thickness, ball diameter, lube, etc.

I'm hopeing to find a accurate hunting load for deer useing 3F powder. Since I also shoot a 32 caliber I won't have to buy different powders.
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Kopfjaeger
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« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2011, 06:28:25 PM »

Would 80 to 85 grains of 3F powder be to much.
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Roger Fisher
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« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2011, 06:36:34 PM »

Would 80 to 85 grains of 3F powder be to much.
That happens to be my 100 yd load now in a .45. Goex not Swiss. 15/16 percussion. .Teflon
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Long Ears
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« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2011, 08:50:32 PM »

I have the exact barrel and caliber rifle. Out here we have Mule Deer that are a bit larger than the Whitetail so I do not use my .50 for hunting. I do however use it all of the time for match shooting. For the long range matches I use a .490 ball and a .015 patch and 95 grains of 3F with spit during the summer and bees wax and bear grease in the winter for lube. I did cone my barrel because I do not like to hammer the ball down the barrel. This combination goes against some of the other guys on this site but works well for me. I also do not need to carry a short starter. This is a very flat and accurate load for my Lancaster rifle. Good luck, Bob
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BrownBear
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« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2011, 10:36:24 PM »

I'm in the same ball park with an assortment of 50 cals, though none with your zact barrel.  All seem to do very well with 80-90 grains of 3f, but I've never tried higher.  Might be better, might not.  In any case, sighted in at 75 yards mine are 2-3" low at 100 and less than an inch high at 50.  And they whap the snot out of deer. 
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longcruise
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Arvada, Colorado


« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2011, 11:28:48 PM »

I know this subject has been covered before.  All you fella's out there shooting 3F powder out of a 50 caliber / 42" long /  7/8 wide / green mountain barrel would you please share with me your load information. Like grains of 3F powder used, patch thickness, ball diameter, lube, etc.

I'm hopeing to find a accurate hunting load for deer useing 3F powder. Since I also shoot a 32 caliber I won't have to buy different powders.

I use 3f exclusively lately in .36, .45, .50 and .54.  Seems to work just fine in all of them.  What will shoot good in yours is to be found by your own experiments.  For deer hunting, an accurate load of 60 grains or more should work just fine.
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blunderbuss
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« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2011, 11:54:17 PM »


The best rule is what shoots best but 85 and 90 sound like alot in a .50 I only shoot 70 ffg in my .58 and I've never had a ball stop in a deer. I guess it depends on the pitch of twist.
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Daryl
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« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2011, 12:02:44 AM »

85 to 90gr. 3f is about equivalent to 110gr. 2F.  It's a good load for longer range deer, for sure.  The point blank range, if sighted for about 110yards, should be 130 to 135yards - ball no more than 3 1/2" above nor below the line of your sights.
DPhar uses around this load (3F one) in his .50 cal. rifle as well.
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Glenn
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« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2011, 12:10:27 AM »

My hunting and target load is the same; CVA .45 caliber / .440 ball / .015 patch / 70 grains FFFg.  Aint never failed me yet.  Only ball I had stop in a deer is when one nicked a rib and followed the rib inside and up finally breaking the spine from the bottom up.  The ball flattened out in the spine.  I recovered it and still have it around here somewhere, complete with the crosshatch pattern of the patch imparted on to the flattened lead ball.  Very interesting and memorable shot.   Grin
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rsells
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« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2011, 12:49:49 AM »

I have been shooting a .50 cal Hawken for the past couple weeks and worked up a load for it.  It is an old GRRW choked bore barrel that I used to make the rifle back in 1978.  The powder charge that shoots the best group with this barrel is 55 gr by volume of 3F and pillow ticking for patch material.  It is on target at 25 and 50 yards, but ended up in the black at 6:00 on the 100 yard target at 100 yards.  I use the same charge across the board and increase my point of aim at 100 yds to make things easier.  However, last week I did shoot different powder charges to see what it would take to bring the point of impact up in line with the 10 ring on the same sized tarket at 100 yds.  It ended up being in the box at 100 yds using 65 gr by volume of 3F.  Not a lot of change in charge, and the groups did not open up a bunch at 25 and 50 yards.  I may use the 65 gr charge to deer hunt, but will use the 55gr for target use.
                                                           Roger Sells
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Kopfjaeger
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« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2011, 07:20:49 AM »

Thanks for the information. I'm just starting getting back into flintlock rifles after around eighteen years of being away from it.  So any information is appreciated.
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hanshi
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« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2011, 06:00:28 PM »

I used to shoot 100 grains of Goex 3F in my .50 EV rifle when I hunted.  That load would really shoot!  For day to day shooting I shot 60grns of 3F.  That load would shoot one hole groups at 50 yards.
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Dphariss
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« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2011, 06:57:55 PM »

Would 80 to 85 grains of 3F powder be to much.

90 gr of FFF Swiss is my accuracy load for a 50 caliber GM barreled Swivel breech. 75 gr is less accurate and testing with FF shows less accuracy so far.
I used to use 90 gr of FFF GOI in a Douglas 50 years ago and was phenomenally accurate ans would shoot about 1" at 100.
1/2 ball weight of powder is not an over load and some barrels like a lot of powder.
I once had a Sharon Hawken 54 that simply would not group with less than 120 gr of FFF.
100 gr of FFF GOEX was my standard 54 load for years and shot very well in every rifle I tried it in other than the Sharon.
90 gr of FFF Swiss (replaces 100 gr of Goex) in my Douglas barreled rifle will shoot into 6" at 100 yards for 5 shots or more.

Dan
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Dphariss
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« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2011, 08:07:24 PM »


The best rule is what shoots best but 85 and 90 sound like alot in a .50 I only shoot 70 ffg in my .58 and I've never had a ball stop in a deer. I guess it depends on the pitch of twist.

Its not a power thing or a "mine is bigger than yours" thing, its accuracy and trajectory. Low velocity balls are as likely the stay in as high velocity. A 490 RB at less than 800 fps will shoot though a Mule Deer or antelope chest I have done it twice with a pistol that only made 800 at the muzzle. This penetration is comparable to a 50 caliber rifle with a 90 gr load at about 200 yards based on tests I did years ago. 200 is too far to shoot animals with a 50 caliber RB unless in a situation where its worth the risk. But 150 is very doable if the load is fast enough and the rifle is sighted for 120-130 yards. But in the woods in the east its not needed.
A friend of mine has actually hunted with an original Hawken rifle that was used in the west and I had mentioned that this rifle has a fairly low front sight and a typical high late Hawken rear and a tapered barrel.
He said "funny you should mention that" and related shooting the rifle years ago and killing a deer with it. He thought is was probably zeroed for 160 yards.

Hunters in the east really have little idea how tough it can be to get with 100 yards of Antelope or even Mule deer some times. I have shot deer at 300 with a modern simply because it was impossible to get closer. I crawled about 50 yards on my belly to get that close.



So I tend to use flat shooting loads in my ML arms. I kill a lot of animals under 100 but there are times when its simply not possible and having an extra 30-50 yards of point blank range is important.
But a high velocity load, like 90 gr of FFF in a 50, will let me hold center of the deers chest from 0 to about 135 yards. Hold a little high and its good for 150.

But the shooter has to be up to the shot.

Dan
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"American Girls and American Guys
Will always stand up and salute  Will always recognize
When we see Old Glory Flying   There's a lot of men dead   So we can sleep in peace at night   When we lay down our head"
Toby Keith "Courtesy of the Red White and Blue"
Kopfjaeger
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« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2011, 06:19:06 PM »

I really appreciate the information guys.  I will be trying some of the suggested loads out with my early virginia
rifle.
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" A godly man and his rifle deprive sleep from the wicked, A christian man who prays is the defeater of evil, A praying man who will fight is the conqueror of nations and the hope of the oppressed "
Wolf Eyes
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« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2011, 10:16:07 PM »

07/18/11 Re-verified .50cal Dickert PRB Deer Load

90grns Goex 3F
Oxyoke .50-.59 - .020 (measures .022) precut / prelubed cotton patches
Hornady .490 ball



Roundball, how are you getting .022" measured for a .020 patch?  If I mike mine they come out less than .020".  How are you measuring the thickness?
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Daryl
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« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2011, 10:24:55 PM »

I've never tried the OxYoke .020", however their .018" lubed patches ran .015" for me with the mic and .0165'w itht he thinnest jaw calipers I have.

I've 3 sets of calipers which give .003" difference in measure,thinnest to thickest jaws- the difference is difficult to see, but not to read.  I squeeze the cloth hard between the wide part of the jaws, forefinger and thumb on the outside of the jaws and read the measurement.

As has been posted here many times, how you measure means as much as what you measure with.   
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James
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« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2011, 10:42:48 PM »

For what it is worth, and considering my inexperience, possibly not much, but with the same spec barrel as yours a GM 42" .50  7/8" straight oct.,  I am at 95 grains FFFg Goex with .015 patches and .490 RB. I intend to try thicker patches at some point, but this load has proved accurate enough to place a kill shot on a deer vitals sized area every shot fired at the 60 yards I am currently practicing at, and 2 1/2" 8 shot group fired from a chunk. Keeping in mind I haven't fired more than 75 rounds from a flintlock yet, so I expect to get better results later. I started at 60 grains and kept going, up to 115 grains. 95 grains has the best results so far for me.
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Wolf Eyes
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« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2011, 08:01:27 PM »

Hmmm.  Makes sense with your approach.  I give it one click on the micrometer clutch for consistancy.
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Daryl
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« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2011, 08:19:48 PM »

For me, with the mic, consistancy comes from brrrrrrrt on the ratchet - same on every piece of cloth giving the same compression force.  Mics will also give different readings, one to another- mine and Taylors read .001" apart - that sort of thing isn't restricted to calipers. Whatever you use, record the results so you can duplicate them later, with a new batch of cloth.
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Don Steele
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« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2011, 06:03:41 AM »

50-80 depending on the relay in competition.
80-90 for deer hunting. Probably don't need that much, but in S.E> Georgia, you never know when a BIG hog is gonna walk by.
The only ball I recovered hit the spine of a Southern whitetail from approx. 35-40 yds. She went down in her tracks.
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Dphariss
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« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2011, 09:31:47 AM »

For what it is worth, and considering my inexperience, possibly not much, but with the same spec barrel as yours a GM 42" .50  7/8" straight oct.,  I am at 95 grains FFFg Goex with .015 patches and .490 RB. I intend to try thicker patches at some point, but this load has proved accurate enough to place a kill shot on a deer vitals sized area every shot fired at the 60 yards I am currently practicing at, and 2 1/2" 8 shot group fired from a chunk. Keeping in mind I haven't fired more than 75 rounds from a flintlock yet, so I expect to get better results later. I started at 60 grains and kept going, up to 115 grains. 95 grains has the best results so far for me.
Swiss will outperform Goex by about 10 grains of powder.
Keep practicing and experiment with where the  rifle is rested. Sometimes only and inch or two variation can make a difference.
Dan
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"American Girls and American Guys
Will always stand up and salute  Will always recognize
When we see Old Glory Flying   There's a lot of men dead   So we can sleep in peace at night   When we lay down our head"
Toby Keith "Courtesy of the Red White and Blue"
crawdad
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« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2011, 10:38:53 AM »

You have to shoot your rifle and find out what load it likes and what load it really likes. If you can get acceptable accuracy from that powder great if you can't well just start shooting and don't stop until you, no, I'm sorry; your rifle finds a load it likes. When sighting in a rifle we give ourselves way too much credit because we don't do anything at all except sit behind it and pull the trigger, the rifle will tell you when to stop.
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hanshi
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« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2011, 12:37:09 PM »

When I measure patch material I also use a caliber and compress some so the jaws rebound and stop.  Where they stop on their own rather than where they stop by hard squeezing is the called thickness.  I can take nominal .022" ticking and by finger squeezing the jaws get .018".  But when I release the caliper settles on .020".  That and 100 grains of Goex 3F made a mighty load in my 42" .50.
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D. Taylor Sapergia
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« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2011, 12:45:20 AM »

I compress the material between the wider part of the jaws of my Vernier's Calipers, with the thumb and forefinger, and take the reading.  I do this because that's how the material is going to be squeezed in the bore of my rifle.  If I bring the jaws together on the material and stop and let go when they do, I get a reading of .030" with patch material whose thickness I record as being .022"with the compressed system.  The compressed fabric is what I'm looking for.  I prefer to cut my own patches from fabric that appeals to me rather than rely on someone else's idea of appropriateness, both in weave and thickness.
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D. Taylor Sapergia
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