Flintlock and back to cap lock no damage to the weapon

[blunderbuss]

 



I was reading in the book" The Handgun by geoffrey Boothroyd" and came across a way to convert a flint lock to caplock but if one traveled into an area where there were no caps to be had one could convert it back to flintlock. I got up from the book and went and made one from the description. However the description wasn't complete so I had to do some work as to the under side of the "converter" that's the part with the nipple in it . I soldered a small brass plate on the bottom of the pan cover which had a small  notch which transferred the fire from the nipple to the touch hole.
Billy Morgan a late friend of mine made the lock the barrel was drilled for me as a favor from a machinist while we were in Viet Nam I brought the barrel home and 26 years later made a pistol out of it .50 smooth bore brass



bottom of converter: the small hole lines up with the touch hole diverts the flame from nipple to touch hole

[alyce-james]

It appears to be a fun project to convert from a flintlock to a cap lock. Does the frizzen open. If so can you add some pictures of this area. AJ

[Shovelbuck]

Made something similar years ago. It allowed me to use the same gun in both flint and percussion matches. Worked good.

[blunderbuss]

It appears to be a fun project to convert from a flintlock to a cap lock. Does the frizzen open. If so can you add some pictures of this area. AJ

There is nothing else to it. The weapon is not changed in the least just put your frizzen back on take the striker out of the jaws and return the flint and your back in bnissness as we say in Texas

[Captchee]

I wonder if this fella just got sick of switching back and forth or was it a case that even 140 years ago  folks wanteded to be able to change back and forth  LOL  


made by John Blanck

[blunderbuss]

 That's cool I guess there was a time when caps were scarace in different parts of the country and they wanted to be able to do both Like a matchlock wheelock combo. I saw a flintlock /matchlock combo once

[Daryl]

Now THAT's pretty cool- would have been a market for those in the American West - as many stayed with flint due to the problem with early caps and that caps were difficult to replace - sometimes on the frontier. A 'convertable' such as either, would have worked for both - easily. The English gunneeded no spare parts (frizzen) to be carried, however Blunderbuss's version could be made the same or similar, leaving the frizzen in place.

[blunderbuss]

 I did a study on when caps came in They were comming on strong in the early 20's in Texas. Specially down around the coast  There were those that held out though at least till '' 2011''  but we aren't fighting Injuns and Santa Anna .Hawkin quit making flintlocks in the early 30's

I wonder how that would shoot with the hole in the bottom of the pan? Looks like it would be slow

[bgf]

This one really took my fancy this morning, and it gave me another idea -- probably not a good thing .  To convert a flintlock temporarily, why couldn't you use an identical percussion lock with the "drum" attached to the lockplate (instead of threaded into barrel) and sealed against the barrel so that it would direct fire from the primer into the touch hole?    Might be handy, and should look just like a "conversion" (which it is), but wouldn't have the problem of shearing off the drum we hear about sometimes.  Somebody tell me why it won't work before I ruin a good cap lock .

[Daryl]

 Due to the hammer sealing the cap against the top, the vent flash would be trying to blow the lock off the stock with every shot.  I'm thinking blast might also be coating the lock's internals as well, however special contouring would eleviate that.  The blast trying to clow the lock or drum off would be detrimental, imho.

[bgf]

Daryl, I think you are right -- perhaps you could vent the drum, but I have a feeling it wouldn't be satisfactory for extendend use even then.  I don't know what is so attractive about the idea of a convertible system anyway, but I'll think about it tomorrow morning when I put on my belt and suspenders . 

[blunderbuss]

This one really took my fancy this morning, and it gave me another idea -- probably not a good thing .  To convert a flintlock temporarily, why couldn't you use an identical percussion lock with the "drum" attached to the lockplate (instead of threaded into barrel) and sealed against the barrel so that it would direct fire from the primer into the touch hole?    Might be handy, and should look just like a "conversion" (which it is), but wouldn't have the problem of shearing off the drum we hear about sometimes.  Somebody tell me why it won't work before I ruin a good cap lock .

I was doing it because it was an original thing. I do 1830's re enacting, and this is alot cheaper than another lock. I've not noticed any determental effects on my pistol and it's been on there a couple of years

[bgf]

Blunderbuss, I might just have to try to make a converter like yours, if for no other reason than to see if I can get one to work. There could have been a lot of this sort of thing going on in the 1830's period you are referring to, with people not wanting to convert flintlocks entirely or afraid of committing to new-fangled percussion technology...  One thing I notice is that it is a lot handier on a lock like your pistol's, where the frizzen pivot screw is external.

[blunderbuss]

 I made that little converter from scratch but one could just order another frizzen take off the striking plate and drill a hole and install a nipple .

[Daryl]

I'm thinking the 'Blanck" gun has the bolster modified to allow flint ignition along with cap.  I'm concerned with the gass pressure with the others.  Vented, I'm sure they'd be OK - like a hotshot nipple or re-built like the Blanck rifle. It is so col, I think someone should do it, just because. It's beyond my meagre talents.

[blunderbuss]

Remember there is a gap between the converter and the barrel.

[Daryl]

Dennis - is the gap wide enough to allow the powder gasses to dissipate & does it allow powder fouling to enter the lock itself or does the pan bottom take care of that as normal?  My current concern was mostly the hammer down hard of the nipple sealing that, and the gasses trying to blow the adapter/lock off the stock.

[Captchee]

 im thinking that no mater how tight the fit  along the barrel ,a bolster attached to the lock would result in fouling  going behind the lock .
 If a new lock isn’t in the cards and there is a possibility of  needing to change back to flint , I would just used a drum bolster that’s neck would also match a liner .
 Then I would make a new pan and bridle that would  matc the existing bridle  and fit the cutout in the lock plate  for the drum bolster .  That way all one would have to do is on screw one and replace with the other . Take out the drum bolster and thread in a liner

 whats interesting about the  Blanck rifle is that  he used a  independent pan system  often seen on SXS . but he made it bugger so as to also form a drum type bolster for  the nipple . also not that the drum/pan is angled alittle forward .
 now the real question .
was this to  actually produce ignition by either system or was it a way to  increase  the ignition of the cap  while at the same time venting  the percussion system ?
 who can really say . seems to me it would have been rather slow  igniting if used as a flintlock  alone . Seems to me if it   one was to make such a thing that could use eather system , why not just  use a bigger necked drum so as to be able to have a proper placed flash hole while at the same time having a  channel running below it . wouldn’t be that hard to do considering  the breech section of the barrel on the  looks to be more rectangle then octagon .

[Daryl]

 im thinking that no mater how tight the fit  along the barrel ,a bolster attached to the lock would result in fouling  going behind the lock .
 If a new lock isn’t in the cards and there is a possibility of  needing to change back to flint , I would just used a drum bolster that’s neck would also match a liner .
 Then I would make a new pan and bridle that would  matc the existing bridle  and fit the cutout in the lock plate  for the drum bolster .  That way all one would have to do is on screw one and replace with the other . Take out the drum bolster and thread in a liner

 whats interesting about the  Blanck rifle is that  he used a  independent pan system  often seen on SXS . but he made it bugger so as to also form a drum type bolster for  the nipple . also not that the drum/pan is angled alittle forward .
 now the real question .
was this to  actually produce ignition by either system or was it a way to  increase  the ignition of the cap  while at the same time venting  the percussion system ?
 who can really say . seems to me it would have been rather slow  igniting if used as a flintlock  alone . Seems to me if it   one was to make such a thing that could use eather system , why not just  use a bigger necked drum so as to be able to have a proper placed flash hole while at the same time having a  channel running below it . wouldn’t be that hard to do considering  the breech section of the barrel on the  looks to be more rectangle then octagon .

I don't see that at all - it is too finely made to be a 'boost'. Since cap ignition is faster than flint to start with, and a vent that is in the bottom of the pan must be slower than side ignition - the boost idea holds no credibility to me. I see that gun as it appears to be - either ignition, but not both at the same time.  The octagonal breech looks a 'bit' different due to the 'rib' on the top flat, but doesn't appear to be rectangular.  The ocatgaonal section is only about 10" long before transitioning into a round barrel - with the raised rib on top.

[Dave Waters]

On the John Blanck gun, It looks to me like the nipple/drum/pan is part of the patten breech and sets on a little shelf built on the lock. Am I seeing it right?

[Captchee]

I don’t think its part of a patent breech dave . If you look close at the last phot you can see that one corner of the bolster is just a tad above the  side flat  while the front corner is below the flat .
 Im thinking the flat plate on the  lock , just supports the booster while at the same time  giving alittle added strength to the bridled frizzen  

Daryl
What in getting at isn’t really boost . Maybe assist is a better word . It would be interesting to make such a drum and see how it would ignite with the flash hole placed  in the bottom of the pan like that . Im thinking the  internal flash channel must be rather big . If not you would end up with something like a cannon  ignition  but without a fuse . It would go off but be rather slow .
 But if one was trying to deal with  inconstant quality in a cap , having 2 ignition sources would increase the  chances of the gun firing
 Its an oddity no doubt . Sure would be neat to better understand the principle behind it
 and you right . that center rib  makes things look rather wide . exspecialy since it feathers out to nothing just after the rear sights

[Daryl]

Taking what's been said into consideration, it now appears the 'drum' with bottom pan vent for the flint arrangement is a screw-in drum afterall.

Capchee, I now see what you're talking about - the appearnce - I'm thinking the top rib goes all the way to the muzzle however the barrel is actually round all the way to the breech, however a side flat is filed at least on the lock side which stops near the rear sight. Interesting and 'nice'.

I think Dennis' 'conversion' probably works just fine & certainly easier (& safer) than removal of the pan and frizzen, spring, etc, replaced with a drum.

[blunderbuss]

 
I think the conversion I have is kind of a temporary one used so it could be turned back if need be and a drum and nipple would be the permanate fix when caps became more available. Which I have found came pretty quickly here in Texas as they were dealing with a bunch of wild things (still are) and wet weather. I have seen that type striker on a drum and nipple too,but problematic as the striker could come loose at a wrong moment, that would be a cheap  quick fix then find a proper hammer when possible.