Author Topic: Chambers oil finish  (Read 16589 times)

yankee

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Chambers oil finish
« on: July 02, 2008, 02:36:40 AM »
Just out of curiosity, if I already started with a hand rubbed boiled linseed oil finish, could I apply Jim chambers oil finish over it? Mostly I'm not happy with how soft the BLO is, and eaisily marred. Just can't bear the thought of stripping this stock again, and the way the aquafortis brought out the figure is really nice looking. Can't say the same about the workmanship though, my first build
Thanks in advance!
mike Pearson

Offline Jim Chambers

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Re: Chambers oil finish
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2008, 03:06:02 AM »
Mike,
The finish we sell should be compatible with the linseed you've put on the stock.  I'd suggest letting the linseed dry a few days before adding our finish.

yankee

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Re: Chambers oil finish
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2008, 03:15:37 AM »
Thanks! It should have enough time to dry, as i have yet to order the finish.....
Mike

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Chambers oil finish
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2008, 05:48:35 AM »
Just out of curiosity, if I already started with a hand rubbed boiled linseed oil finish, could I apply Jim chambers oil finish over it? Mostly I'm not happy with how soft the BLO is, and easily marred. Just can't bear the thought of stripping this stock again, and the way the aquafortis brought out the figure is really nice looking. Can't say the same about the workmanship though, my first build
Thanks in advance!
mike Pearson

Linseed does not work as a built up finish.
Nor is hardware store linseed oil stock finish. Its meant to be paint thinner.
If you want the linseed oil harder you need to "boil" it. Then add something to make varnish of it. Very hard varnishes do not make good stock finish since they often are not elastic enough for use on a stock finish.
Most real oil finishes will work over linseed oil. Stripping an oil finish is never a good idea.
One other thing a great deal of what you read in books and magazines concerning stock finishing is wrong or is designed to sell some product.
I would wet a piece of 0000 steel wool and remove any built up finish if it were walnut. On stained maple you need to be more careful.
To make store bought linseed oil into stick finish you need to find a deep fat fryer in a second hand store or yard sale.
Put in a gallon of store bought linseed oil. Some crushed limestone (I simply whack a couple of pieces about the size of my thumb with a hammer and put this in the pot) and a tsp to tbs of Japan Drier. Turn cooker on high and heat until it smokes for about an hour. Let cool. You now have linseed oil suitable for stock finish. It will be thicker and darker than the store bought oil. Just like the old time stock finish.
I decant 1/2 the oil into jars then re-"boil" the rest 1-3 times to thicken it.
Very heavy oil works for filling walnut.
If you mix some Grumbachers Oil Painting Medium III 50-50 with the thin oil you will have a varnish that is far more weather resistant than the oil alone. I use this for top coats.
This site needs a sticky on making oil and making the various authentic varnishes from it. The how to use the stuff.
Store bought "boiled" oil cooked in this manner makes a very good stock finish but is not used as most fast drying stuff is.
Direct sunlight greatly speeds drying.

Dan
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Offline E.vonAschwege

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Re: Chambers oil finish
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2008, 06:19:56 AM »
If you want to get any "cured" linseed oil off the surface, a rag soaked with MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone) will remove just about any finish there is.  It's NASTY stuff, be sure to wear gloves and do it outside.  It'll take the finish off down to the bare wood, but will leave the stain alone since it's aquafortis.  It will actually pull some of the oil out of the pores as well, making the stock look very dry and ready for refinishing.  Been there done that!! 
-Eric

As a side note, I like to use Chambers oil but it can be somewhat finicky with regards to drying as "hard" as I like, the gloss seems to wear away when I've used it.  Still, it's one of my favorites.  Also, Permalyn will adhere to just about anything and will cure nice and hard even when the finish underneath doesn't seem to be working out.   
« Last Edit: July 02, 2008, 06:21:40 AM by EvonAschwege »
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yankee

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Re: Chambers oil finish
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2008, 06:43:22 PM »
So the Permalyn would work over it too? Ive got a can here somewhere, might try that.
Mike

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Chambers oil finish
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2008, 07:17:49 PM »
So the Permalyn would work over it too? Ive got a can here somewhere, might try that.
Mike

It will work. Probably. If you want a plastic finish.

Dan
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Offline Stophel

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Re: Chambers oil finish
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2008, 08:13:14 PM »
You don't want any linseed oil left on the surface of the wood.  It does not dry hard.  It will solidify, but it will always remain rather soft.  It is an "in the wood" finish.  For an "on the wood" finish, a varnish is required.

It's not entirely necessary to have truly boiled oil.  Raw oil will dry, but it does take longer.  You do need to start with a GOOD quality cold pressed, preferably purified linseed oil.  The better grade the oil, the better it will work.

A quick, easy way to get a decent oil finish is to go to www.woodcraft.com and get some Tried and True "varnish oil".  This is a good quality oil that is made into "stand oil" (basically, it is put into glass covered trays in the sun to thicken it some) and it has some rosin added.  There's not much rosin in it, and it still doesn't dry real hard.  It could stand to have more resins added to make a good surface varnish.  Will work well as a regular oil finish.  Do what the directions say.  Apply in THIN coats.  Set it in the sun to dry each coat for a day, or two, or three...

I am kind of returning to the use of boiled oil for finish.  I just made myself up some oil.  Took almost a quart of oil, added a teaspoon of lead carbonate, a teaspoon of burnt umber (the manganese in the umber is supposed to be a good drying catalyst, as is the lead carbonate), and boiled it in my little deep fryer thingy for about an hour and a half (at most).  You just want a low boil.  It does not have to be really rolling.  In fact, you don't want it to get too violent.  Keep the lid on the pot (it CAN catch fire...even with a closed element and no open flame.  Believe me, so keep the lid handy, along with a fire extinguisher, and do this out in the backyard well away from anything you don't want to burn down...and NEVER hold your head over the pot and look directly into it.  The fumes aren't too pleasant anyway, but you definitely don't want to happen to be over top of the pot and suddenly 4 foot flames begin to leap up out of the pot!  Oh, and do NOT add turpentine to the boiling oil.  Turpentine has a low flash point, and those 4 foot flames will become an 8 foot flamethrower.  Again, believe me, I know).   The resultant stuff is THICK.  Thicker than honey.  You can thin it with turpentine and rub it into the wood.  It will dry really quickly.  Several hours in the sun.  What I need to do is make up some oil and leave it thin.  Boil it for a half hour or less, which will keep it a nice, light consistency, and it will penetrate deeper.

"stripping this stock again".... you sound like me.  In my finishing experiments I have had to strip off a lot of varnish and redo a stock.  I use Strypeze (which I think has the MEK in it...).  Zip Strip is about the same thing.

To get dried linseed oil off the surface, you cut it off with burlap.  Scrub off the oil with the burlap using a shoe shine motion across the grain.  In fact, to do a good oil finish, this is what you're supposed to do.  When you get the grain close to filled, put on a coat and let the excess stand on the surface and let it dry (or get nearly dry), then cut it off the surface, leaving the grain filled.  Now, if it's varnish and has resins in it, you can't really do this, as it's too hard.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2008, 08:17:53 PM by Stophel »
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Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Chambers oil finish
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2008, 10:03:59 PM »
The simple thing is to clean it well and use the Chambers oil varnish.  Put a nice coat of Renaissance wax  from WoodCraft on it after it has dried about ten days and seen lots of sunlight. It won't crack like Permalyn cause there is no plastic in it.
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Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: Chambers oil finish
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2008, 10:31:36 PM »
Get the Chamber's Oil....  you'll like it!

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yankee

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Re: Chambers oil finish
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2008, 11:38:11 PM »
Think I'll go ahead and order the Chambers oil. Was thinking about the Permalyn until the word "plastic" was used....
Mike

J.D.

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Re: Chambers oil finish
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2008, 12:21:42 AM »
Some folks here use Permalyn as a seal coat, then finish with an oil varnish to provide good weather resistance and the look and feel of an oil finish.

lhill

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Re: Chambers oil finish
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2008, 12:25:13 AM »
What kind of polymers(plastic) is permalyn supposed to be? I was told it was a blend of tung/linseed and some driers. is it a urethane?

Offline Jim Chambers

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Re: Chambers oil finish
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2008, 02:49:02 AM »
Permalyn is basically polyurathane.  Our finish is the tung/linseed type of finish

Offline Jim Filipski

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Re: Chambers oil finish
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2008, 04:49:49 AM »
Right about now We would have been hearing JerryH extolling the virtues of Permalyn! Man I miss not having him on this new Forum!
Jim
« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 04:55:27 AM by JWFilipski »
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Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Chambers oil finish
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2008, 04:56:21 AM »
Jim, I suspect Jerry will move over at some point.
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Offline E.vonAschwege

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Re: Chambers oil finish
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2008, 05:35:37 AM »
Right about now We would have been hearing JerryH extolling the virtues of Permalyn! Man I miss not having him on this new Forum!
Jim

You read my mind Jim... I was waiting to hear his "If Jacob Dicket had Permalyn, he would have used it"  ;)

I know some folks make beautiful use of permalyn (Jerry, Bill Shipman), but don't care for it as a stand-alone finish, even if it IS bulletproof... HOWEVER it has saved my butt before.  That Red-varnish Moll rifle I did a few years back had my own brew of varnish.  It cured well enough, but I could still mark it with my fingernail too easily.  I put a super thin coat of permalyn sealer over it and that was that!  The finish looks like an oil varnish because 90% of it is, the permalyn just somehow made it that much more durable.  Go figure!
-Eric
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TENdriver

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Re: Chambers oil finish
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2008, 05:16:56 PM »
I've had good luck using just turpentine for taking off gummy or soft store bought linseed oil. 

Aniline dyes aren't affected and the dried oil seems undisturbed

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Chambers oil finish
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2008, 08:45:15 PM »
What kind of polymers(plastic) is permalyn supposed to be? I was told it was a blend of tung/linseed and some driers. is it a urethane?

Its a synthetic resin. There is a web site just google Permalyn its a trade name for a whole family of synthetic resins.
This stuff came into use as a stock finish because someone had a bunch of guns to finish fast and apparently had no idea how to do a traditional finish. Then, from what I have been told, they basically wrote a back story to make the stuff "OK" to use on longrifles. Thus the guns they made were HC, to them anyway.
While some people can make this stuff and the stains that go with it look pretty good a lot of guns done with this look like they were finished with plastic and synthetic dyes. Reading to the machinations people go through to use some finishes described on American LR site is mind boggling to me.

Dan
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