American Long Rifles Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 25, 2014, 03:38:12 PM
Home Help Login Register
News:

View the Most Recent Posts
View the ALR Mission Statement
View ALR Rules and Policies
Donate to ALR via US Mail or PayPal

+  AmericanLongRifles Forums
|-+  General discussion
| |-+  Antique Gun Collecting
| | |-+  Schimmel Rifle Question
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Schimmel Rifle Question  (Read 4512 times)
JonathanM
Guest
« on: September 28, 2011, 02:17:56 PM »


 Sirs,

 I desperatly look for original, antique, "Schimmel"-like Flintlock Rifles pictures, or, more accurately, Flintlock Rifles shaped exactly
 in that style:

 

 

 

 

 

 


 No engraving at all (on furniture, lockplate, barrel, etc), no carving, no patchbox, no lockbolt....nothing but the absolutely necessary parts to
 make the gun goes bang! Nothing fancy at all. With or without buttplate.

 Many Gunbuilders propose such a gun, but there must be some pictures somewhere of existing originals, don't they?

 Please could you kindly help me?

 Very Best Regards,
 Jonathan
Logged
Buck
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 468


A.F.A.M. # 934, Trinity Commandry #80


« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2011, 03:55:44 PM »

Jonathon,
 Michael Simens has 2 posted on his website that he sold a while back.
Buck
Logged
Stophel
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3922


Chris Immel


« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2011, 04:10:22 PM »

Here's one here:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=2636.0

I believe this is the same gun that I got to see several years ago, along with another by D. Boyer.  These aren't Lehigh guns, though.
Logged

I'm sorry, I thought we were building flintlocks...not fiberglass stocked, tactical bolt action sniper rifles.
Bill of the 45th
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1398


Gaylord, Michigan


« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2011, 04:16:09 PM »

Jonathon, Welcome to the ALR.  You've posted pic's of what appears to be a Lehigh style rifle.  There are a number around depending if you are looking in general, or for a particular style or period.  The Tennessee, Carolina. Appalachian areas's have many more than others in the 1800 to 1830 period.  More info as to style and time would help.  There are probably very few in the New England area, though there may be some as fowlers. Or you could go with a contemporary one built by an Antique, just contact Don Getz. Grin  Roll Eyes  Shocked

Bill
Logged

A clear conscience is the sign of a fuzzy memory.
JonathanM
Guest
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2011, 04:33:16 PM »


 Thank you buck, Stophel and Bill for your messages.  Smiley

 Stophel,

 Beautiful! The lockplates are engraved though, is there any chance to find a completely plain lockplate on such a rifle from you?


 Bill,

 Honestly, regarding the style, I would say Pa, and Flintlock!  Grin

Jonathan
Logged
Stophel
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3922


Chris Immel


« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2011, 04:55:29 PM »

These "barn guns" are pretty limited in area and time period to the Lehigh-Berks area and others like Schuylkill counties. (did I spell that right?).  1820's-1850's.  These were "store bought" locks, and, unfortunately, during this time period, they are generally festooned with some rather garish engraving.

Southern "poor boy" guns are something else, and I don't know that I have even seen an old one that was really comparable.... but that is definitely not my area of "expertise"... assuming I even have one!   Cheesy
Logged

I'm sorry, I thought we were building flintlocks...not fiberglass stocked, tactical bolt action sniper rifles.
Stophel
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3922


Chris Immel


« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2011, 05:05:03 PM »

The Boyer gun I got to see was shaped very similarly to the signed Angstadt one, but the gun was definitely "oversized" in all dimensions (which makes it just about right for me!).  I am told that this is common.  The makers would likely have stocks made up roughly and when someone came to buy one, he would just grab one and finish it as desired.  And barn guns were NOWHERE as neatly finished as the modern one shown above!!!  The Boyer gun was coarsely scraped, and was colored brown with....something, and there was varnish on top of it, but I can imagine that when the gun was sold, it was unstained, and likely even unfinished.  Perhaps a quick coat of linseed oil or something.  HEAVY straight barrel, about .54 smoothbored (I am also told that these types of guns are universally smoothbored), marked "D CHRIST" (I think that's right, isn't that the pretty well known barrel maker?).  These guns are literally lock, stock, and barrel, and that's it.

I made one a few years ago like this.  Mine is definitely better finished too!   Grin
This gun was actually FUN for me to build, and I can't say I usually have "fun" building them!  Cheesy

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v326/Fatdutchman/Flintlocks/BerksBauernwehr/
Logged

I'm sorry, I thought we were building flintlocks...not fiberglass stocked, tactical bolt action sniper rifles.
jimc2
Full Member
***
Posts: 162


« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2011, 07:19:04 PM »

Chuck Dixon has several behind the counter on display they are pretty neat
Logged

jim
mr. no gold
member 2
Hero Member
*
Posts: 1734


« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2011, 11:04:14 PM »

My impression is that they are rather rare. I have seen only one that I can recall. It was a dandy and had all of the lack of refinements that we associate with a good Kentucky, including no butt plate. If you find an original, you will be fortunate, in my opinion. Never have I seen one for sale. Good luck!
Dick
Logged
JonathanM
Guest
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2011, 02:11:38 PM »


 Hello friends,

 Thank you for your replies. Yes, they are probably rare, being surely less well cared of than more decorated rifles.

 I still look for some pictures, it would be so helpful for me! Is there any chance to find some in books?

 Best Regards,
  Jonathan
Logged
Stophel
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3922


Chris Immel


« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2011, 02:20:25 PM »

Actually, there seems to be quite a few of them...  They just don't get "published".   Cool
Logged

I'm sorry, I thought we were building flintlocks...not fiberglass stocked, tactical bolt action sniper rifles.
mr. no gold
member 2
Hero Member
*
Posts: 1734


« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2011, 08:14:21 PM »

I do not see them at gunshows, or offered through web sales sites. Perhaps one or two at the KRA, but the most memorable one was owned by a collector in Pittsburg. I don't recall who made it; too long ago. It was pretty much as you described above, Stophel; it was a big gun.
Seems like Whisker may have included it in one of his "Behold the Longrifle" works.
If you have a source, by all means, share it around. There are certainly some takers here, it would seem. I would like to own an original.
Dick
Logged
Stophel
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3922


Chris Immel


« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2011, 08:22:52 PM »

One is in "Early American Flintlocks" on p. 30

The "KRA Brown book" shows three by David Boyer, pp. 256-261

I have been told that they are fairly easy to come across... in that area.

I would LOVE to have one myself, but I can't even afford the trip up there, much less the gun.   Wink
Logged

I'm sorry, I thought we were building flintlocks...not fiberglass stocked, tactical bolt action sniper rifles.
JonathanM
Guest
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2011, 05:22:41 AM »

Dear Stophel,

Thank you for your reply and infos. Please could you post some pictures of the pages you describe? I cannot have access to those publications at all.  Embarrassed

Best Wishes,
Jonathan
Logged
smshea
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 588


WWW
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2011, 02:48:50 PM »

The boyer guns in the KRA book are very similar to the Angstadt pictured here. Some of them, if not all of them are the ones on the wall at Dixons. I cant find the picture at the moment and may have lost it with a hard drive crash a year or so ago but the most interesting schimmel on Chucks wall is a large oversized Bucks co. gun.
Very Cool!

 There are more around these parts than one might think but they don't surface too often. There may be several reasons for this. They are often in rather poor shape.  Two in particular come to mind that I could kick myself for not buying over the last couple of years. Angry
Logged

JonathanM
Guest
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2011, 06:35:02 AM »


 Dear smshea,

 Would you please have pictures of the Boyer guns?  Smiley

 Thank you,
 Jonathan
Logged
smshea
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 588


WWW
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2011, 09:53:21 AM »

I looked yesterday and do not seem to have any of those pictures, possibly someone else does. If not, I am in and out of Dixons at least once a month and I will take new pictures and post them or send them to you.
Logged

JonathanM
Guest
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2011, 12:48:40 PM »


 Many thanks smshea! It would be so great to receive those pictures! And so helpful!  Cool

 Sincerely,
 Jonathan
Logged
mr. no gold
member 2
Hero Member
*
Posts: 1734


« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2011, 01:46:22 PM »

Just some blue sky thinking here, but I wonder if some of the schimmel guns might not have been made by Amish builders? That type of rifle would comport with their avoiding fancy things and espousement of the simple life. Has anyone seen indications of that?
Dick
Logged
Stophel
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3922


Chris Immel


« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2011, 03:33:49 PM »

Maybe not by Amish/Mennonite gunsmiths, but possibly, at least partially, for Amish/Mennonite customers.
Logged

I'm sorry, I thought we were building flintlocks...not fiberglass stocked, tactical bolt action sniper rifles.
jdm
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 386


« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2011, 05:05:33 PM »


Maybe not by Amish/Mennonite gunsmiths, but possibly, at least partially, for Amish/Mennonite customers.


   Good point I never thought of that.It would make sense that might of happened.
  JIM
Logged

JIM
smshea
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 588


WWW
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2011, 06:25:14 PM »


 Many thanks smshea! It would be so great to receive those pictures! And so helpful!  Cool

 Sincerely,
 Jonathan

Shoot me an email.
Logged

Don Getz
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6832


« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2011, 09:29:44 AM »

If you want to build a "schimmel" and are looking for pictures of originals, forget it, you don't need a picture.   We are
talking about a plain gun, built by a recognized gun builder, but lacking a lot of the fancy stuff.  This is one area where
pre-shaped stocks come into play.   I have done a lot of Lancaster " poor boy, shimmel, or barn gun", whatever you want
to call it.  Send a barrel to Dave Keck, or other stock carvers, and have them inlet the barrel and give  you a butt shape
of a Lancaster, J.P. Beck, a Lehigh, Verner, whatever.   Then shape a gun out of it minus the buttplate, sideplate, entry
pipe, and nose cap, and certainly no carving.  Just like the Lehigh show in the first posting on this subject, which, by the
way looks great.   I have also found that when you saw the butt end off of the stock, I do it with a slightly less than a
90 degree angle, try it, they shoulder just great.  This can be a great gunbuilding learning tool.   You quickly learn about
architecture and finishing, and it doesn't take forever to get a finished gun...........Don
Logged
JonathanM
Guest
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2011, 12:55:35 PM »


 Thank you very much Don for your help and kindness.
Logged
Majorjoel
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2373



« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2011, 05:54:10 AM »

This rifle is listed as made by Daniel Sheetz Uniontown OHIO.                http://www.cherrys.com/stokpics/28419fla.jpg
Logged

Joel Hall
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!