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Author Topic: Scratch-built locks  (Read 14083 times)
Acer Saccharum
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« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2011, 05:48:46 PM »

Great post, Jim. Great work. Really diggin' your locks. Forgewelded on pans....you are very skilled, my friend. My hat's off to you.
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rich pierce
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« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2011, 12:13:42 PM »

The 1095 used today is certainly inferior to the
52-100 which is what ball bearings are made from. Bob Roller

Bob, did you try the ball bearing steel because it's also use in "rollers"?   Cheesy

Thanks for the info- I've suspected that there are steels that spark better than 1095 as old files seem to be sparkier when I make firesteels.
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hoochiepapa
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« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2011, 12:48:40 PM »

Rich, you beat me to it.
Mr. Everett, I am astounded in what you do. My hat is off to you.
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Bob Roller
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« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2011, 03:36:32 PM »

No,I went to 52-100 on advice from the same metallurgist that said 12L14 isn't gun barrel material. It works as 30+years of service in European competitions proves. I don't know why a superior material isn't at least tested when superiority is demonstrated. "Best"has always stood towering over "Good enough"and it costs little to try it.

Bob Roller
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rich pierce
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« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2011, 05:04:06 PM »

Great having you here.  Looking at specs it looks like 52-100 is bearing steel because of the chromium content, and the carbon content overlaps with 1095.  Metallurgy is akin to wizardry to folks in the biological sciences, and I imagine there's more to it than simple hardness, probably crystal structure and all that differe between non chromium-containing alloys like 1095 and 52-100.
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dannybb55
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« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2011, 06:35:10 PM »

Jim Do you have any photos of the parts rough forged so we can see how you got there?
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wild bill
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« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2011, 09:59:48 AM »

.

This one is from a Lancaster Co. 56" , 0.508 cal barrel smoothbore.



Jim Everett

Very nice work.  I build my own locks as well, but I do it with modern tools and materials. I'm impressed.
I've never seen a sear spring like the one shown above. Is it copied from an original? How is it attached to the plate?
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Acer Saccharum
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« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2011, 04:15:54 PM »

Is there a sear spring screw under the bridle? Like the big English locks?
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Dr. Tim-Boone
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« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2011, 06:04:53 PM »

looks like it to me!!
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Richard Westerfield
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« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2011, 06:18:57 PM »

why don't you do a Tutorials locks?
thank you
Richard Westerfield
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James Wilson Everett
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« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2011, 08:10:04 AM »

Guys,

The lock I made for the Lancaster Co. LONG fowler (56" BBL) was an English style lock.  The sear spring screw is behind the lock interior bridal plate, but it is the typical screw passing completely through the lockplate.  It can not be seen from the lock exterior since it is behind the cock.  This design makes lock assembly/disassembly a little more difficult.  Maybe later I can post the in process parts for some locks that I am currently making.  Check under the topic of the flash pan grinder to see the in process use of an original tool.  Also, check under the tutorial for making 18th c. wood screws for the use of another original tool.

Jim Everett
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« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2011, 08:30:21 AM »

Just so you guys know, making an in-depth tutorial is an incredible amount of work. Ofttimes the demonstrator needs to have a photographer to help take proper shots.
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Bob Roller
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« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2011, 10:31:13 AM »

A tutorial on making locks from scratch would be like a mail order hair cut,difficult indeed.
Back in 1970,I gave Mr.Cochran tips and pointers on lock making as well as  types of materials and sources,also permission to copy the internals if he wanted to. !970 was the year I went to the linked mainspring in several different flintlocks  I was making. Mr.Cochran did a creditable job of copying my earlier type and as far as I know,they worked well. All the help I gave him was by phone in the evening after work.
Most lock makers use investment cast internal parts but I am not interested in having a glitch in someone else's quality control become my glitch. Mass production is OK (maybe)but I prefer to be the fanatic about small details.
At this time I am making 10 Twigg locks using the elegant external parts from R.E.Davis Co. and am now working on #6. I tried to get a picture posted for this forum of this lock and the double set trigger I made with it but Photo bucket isn't compatible with this ancient MSN2 system I use.IF anyone is interested in seeing these parts, my personal E mail is <wvgzr@webtv.net>.I will send the picture I have taken with our son's camera phone..
The scratch built lock shown on this forum is a fine job and I get tired just thinking about the work involved in it. The closest I get to this today is milling a lock plate for a Hawken caplock or an English 4 screw as used on a Rigby or some similar long range rifle.I have pictures of those as well if anyone is interested.
I use cast steel hammers on these caplocks but that is all.

Bob Roller
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Pletch
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« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2011, 07:27:51 AM »

Bob,
I'll post a few pics of Twigg #4 that you sent me.  Should be able to get that done this afternoon.
Regards,
Pletch
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Regards,
Pletch
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James Wilson Everett
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« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2011, 03:25:07 PM »

Danny & guys,

Here are some photos of the rough forged and inprocess parts for the locks I am now building.  I probably will not be able to finish these soon as I am being sent overseas from Jan to June.

Here is a lock about half way done, about the size of a large Siler - all completely hand made from wrought iron using 18th c. tools & techniques.


Here is the cock with the lower jaw rough formed and the jaw screw in place.  You can see the inside shoulder rough forged in place.




Here are the springs roughed out.  They are made from 1095 carbon steel  and will be bent to the vee shape later.


Jim Everett
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Pletch
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« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2011, 05:39:46 PM »

I just finished taking photos of Bob's Twigg #4.

Front view:


Rear View:


Close-up of tumbler area:



Regards,
Pletch
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Regards,
Pletch
blackpowdermag@gmail.com

He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what can never be taken away.
Bob Roller
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« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2011, 10:51:22 PM »

Pletch,
Many thanks for posting the picture of the Twigg for me. As I said earlier,I will cut these off at the 10th one and they are all spoken for with deposits. Number 6 is ready and will go to "Kollyfornyuh"along with double set triggers.
The L&R Ashmore with my regular mechanism is a good performer and is a fairly good size lock. The Durs Egg is another one. I have done 2 or 3 of Jim Chambers late Ketland and it certainly works and is good looking as well.
My next series run will be 5 percussion schuetzen locks for a German gun maker and they will probably have a very similar mechanism to the Twiggs.
After that,who knows? I am miles behind on shop work because I supervised and helped a bit in the restoration of our 108 year old house and the complete redoing of the yard.We are now broke flatter than the Packard car company but happy and we know where every dime went. I am thinking of having an Amish group come in and build a new shop for me but haven't really decided on that one yet.
Thanks again for the picture posting as t shows this classic lock and what can be done if time is taken.

Bob Roller
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James Wilson Everett
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« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2011, 11:02:51 PM »

Guys,

Here are some more photos of hand built locks.  Again, the are built only using 18th c tooling and techniques, although I do sometimes shorten the time to make the locks by using twist drills, but sometimes I use the 18th c spade drills too.

Here is a brass plate lock from a brass barreled rifled pistol of 0.469 cal.






Here is a wrought iron lock from a wrought iron mounted pistol with a hand forged wrought iron barrel of 0.458 cal.







Notice that I like to make early style locks that had a long throw to the cock.  The full cock places the hammer much farther back than the modern locks.  Also when I make a barrel, I work at the bore until it is smooth and shiny with a square armory reamer, then I measure the size.  Whatever it is - it is.  Apparently I find making flintlocks very entertaining.

Jim Everett
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dannybb55
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« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2011, 11:47:47 PM »

By t,he look of your internals, it doesn't seem necessary to have NASA style close tolerances and perfectly flat surfaces to make a good lock. Is there any way that you can show us some rough forgings of a cock, a spring and a battery?
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It's as easy as making chain
James Wilson Everett
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« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2011, 07:58:56 AM »

Danny,

Check the photos posted on 13 November for the rough and in process parts.

Jim
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Bob Roller
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« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2011, 08:13:22 AM »

Close tolerances and properly preloaded springs are the heart of a gun lock. On the Twigg locks I am making,I use a #35 reamer for the sear pin hole which is .110 and a pin diameter of .1094 plus no more than .002 overtravel at fully cocked. It's just as easy to do this as it is to mess it up beyond all hope of repair.

Bob Roller
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dannybb55
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« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2011, 09:26:24 PM »

I am going to forge a cock to this step and have some forging fun.
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James Wilson Everett
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« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2011, 08:21:27 AM »

Danny,

Forging a cock is both fun and challenging.  The challenge I found was in making the "second" bend.  The first bend is the one just below the lower jaw and is easy to do.  The second bend brings the iron back to where the tumbler screw hole will be located.  The challenge is that when you try the second bend, the first bend will straighten out!!  I use a jig made from two separate rectangular steel blocks with 1/4 inch diameter pins protruding by about 1.5 inch.  You can clamp the blocks in a big post vise so the pins are as close, or as far apart as required by just adjusting the relative position of the blocks in the vise.

After the second bend is when you flatten/widen the tumbler hole area and at the same time form the step.  If you use wrought iron, be sure to make this end a good bit longer than required as wrought iron will tend to split at the end during the flatten/widen forging.  Later you cut the split end off to bring the cock to the correct size.

If this does not make sense, let me know & I can post some photos.

Jim Everett
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AeroE
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« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2011, 11:42:30 AM »

Sir, I understand, but I would like to see a couple of photos anyway.

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Lee Lawson
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Acer Saccharum
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« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2011, 01:07:39 PM »

Just a note: it takes a lot of work to gather and post photos; if you don't have the requested shots, especially if you have to go light the forge and get someone good with a camera to take pictures.

It is really great to have all this information on the web. Virtual apprenticing to a master, twenty first century style.

Tom

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