Author Topic: Cleaning Woes  (Read 5456 times)

Offline 54Bucks

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Cleaning Woes
« on: November 24, 2011, 06:09:13 PM »
 Our 4 day Pa. Black Bear season just concluded. The weather for the first day was beautiful then it rained steadily the last 3 days. Perhaps the following will provide a chuckle, or a warning when using CO2 dischargers and/or felt overpowder wads between powder charge and ball.
 When it came time to clean my loaded unfired rifle I proceeded as usual. First using the CO2 discharger to blow out the load. Followed by plugging the vent and filling the bore with water for 5-10 minutes. I sloshed the water around and dumped it out, then propped it against the vice muzzled down for a few minutes. I then proceeded to run clean dry patches. Normally it takes about 5 patches- scrape the breech plug face- then another 5 patches to get the bore clean. Not this time! ?????? After about 15 patches I wasn't making any progress. So I guessed the CO2 cartridge was a little weak and left more powder in the bore than usual, so I repeated the plug the vent fill the bore with water step again. After draining I started with the dry patches again. And after another 15 patches I'm still not gaining ground. What the heck????? Luckily I usually poke the vent with a small pc. of braided copper wire. This helps clean out the vent and also captures anything present to show it may need some further attension. But this time the braided wire extracted some unusual fibres. Ureka! The CO2 discharger didn't blow out the felt wad. And when I'de run a dry cleaning patch I'de push all the wet unburned powder and felt wad back against the breech. A patch worm soon got me to where I could start step one. Then my standard cleaning process got the job done.
 Now you guys can all chuckle at my 2 hour cleaning adventure. Me I think I'll reconsider using a CO2 discharger to blow out an unfired charge before cleaning. Actually I think the bore is easier to clean after firing than it is using the CO2 discharger. Yeah I think I'll keep the discharger in the range box for anyone who forgets to use powder before running a ball.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Cleaning Woes
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2011, 06:45:28 PM »
Sounds like the discharger worked ok other wise, just use a worm to remove wad before cleaning. I rigged up an adapter for my air compresor that works ok when I need to do that at home, cheaper that co2 cartridges.  Happy Thanksgiving.   Smylee

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Cleaning Woes
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2011, 07:07:16 PM »
Allowing powder fouling to set in the barrel wet is not a good idea. Water makes  fouling corrosive. I dump in some water (in fixed breeched guns) then slosh it and dump, wet patch, then repeat the process another time or two and then a few wet patches then dry.
If there is powder in the bore I use a worm on it. I always shoot mine out before returning the civilization but got a rifle wet ::) in the snow tagging a deer the other day and pulled it and had to worm the powder out. Then did the slosh thing about three times to wash out the powder.

The need for long soaks, if there is one, can be the result of improperly breeched barrels with fouling traps at the breech which can make cleaning very difficult.

Dan
No, sir, I don't give 'em $#*!, I just tell the truth and they think it's $#*!. Harry S Truman

Daryl

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Re: Cleaning Woes
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2011, 06:57:16 PM »
From time to time, I used to plug the vent, pour cold water into the bore and let it sit for 10 or 15 minutes, then dump it, re-fill and repeat, patching it out. Usually 6 patches would clean and dry the bore. This type of cleaning was at Rondy, while making supper and getting ready for the evening's 'events'. 

The reason I bring this up, is that Dan is correct about the fouling + water = corrosive, so I'll cease and desist this type of cleaning from now on- dumping, sloshing, patching will work just fine if I don't want to use a bucket/pump water in and out treatment. So far, I haven't damaged a barrel doing this, but just to be safe, I'll stop with the soaking.

Offline westerner

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Re: Cleaning Woes
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2011, 11:25:27 PM »
CO2 Discharger?  ???   EEEGADS!   But why?   ??? ???

Thats what you get for messing with technology.   :P   ;D


                 Joe.  :)
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Offline 54Bucks

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Re: Cleaning Woes
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2011, 01:23:01 AM »
CO2 Discharger?  ???   EEEGADS!   But why?   ??? ???

Thats what you get for messing with technology.   :P   ;D


                 Joe.  :)

 Why?????? Because they are made to dislodge a dry ball or unfired ball/patch/load. Also work fine on a load that got drenched and won't ignite. They come with attatchments to fit both flint/vent and percussion and easily fits in the range box. Never tried it on a percussion gun. It's kinda neet to watch the patch/ball bounce off the concrete wall about 30 ft. thru the garage door. This past experience was unusual in that the patched ball came out fine but that little round felt wad stayed in the bore unknown to me. Never happened before and I attribute it to a low CO2 cylinder (pellet gun size).

Offline Leatherbelly

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Re: Cleaning Woes
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2011, 01:36:01 AM »
With a hunting load I've found it's just easier to shoot the ball out. The cleanup is a breeze with just one firing then the other route.
I'm a Mountain Man and I like mountain women.

Daryl

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Re: Cleaning Woes
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2011, 03:31:27 AM »
Me too, LB - usually stop on the way home and marvel at the 'light show' - or leave it loaded.  I've left my .69 loaded for 3 onths, only to discharge it at the end of the season, previously unfired, - intand ignition and hit centre with that shot - Mink Oil lubed patch, with card wad separating lubed patch from the charge.

 Here, a gun is not legally loaded unless capped or powder in the vent. Vent brushed out with a peg in the hole  or capless nipple, toothpick in nipple hole - depending on the lube, of course,left loaded until next time.  Some are not good for being left a long time.

If I used Hoppe's #9 Plus for lube and had to set the right aside for a week, I'd shoot it off at the end of the day and clean it after getting home.  Pretty easy, simple cleaning with just one shot fired - litterally no fouling in the breech at all.


54bucks - on rereading the thread, I see the 'bear season' had just finished, so yes it's time to address the loaded barrel. 

I suspect the CO2 machines loose gas over time - and of cour`se, if it's been used a time or 2, along with cold weather, the pressue will be reduced as well.  I've seen those things in operation, and indeed, if I had one, I'd probably use it just as you did, to eliminate the having to clean afterwards.  We see from what happened to you, that running a worm down first would have been a good habit to get into after 'blowing' a load that has a wad in it.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 04:39:02 AM by Daryl »

Offline westerner

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Re: Cleaning Woes
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2011, 08:38:30 AM »
CO2 Discharger?  ???   EEEGADS!   But why?   ??? ???

Thats what you get for messing with technology.   :P   ;D


                 Joe.  :)

 Why?????? Because they are made to dislodge a dry ball or unfired ball/patch/load. Also work fine on a load that got drenched and won't ignite. They come with attatchments to fit both flint/vent and percussion and easily fits in the range box. Never tried it on a percussion gun. It's kinda neet to watch the patch/ball bounce off the concrete wall about 30 ft. thru the garage door. This past experience was unusual in that the patched ball came out fine but that little round felt wad stayed in the bore unknown to me. Never happened before and I attribute it to a low CO2 cylinder (pellet gun size).

So is a percussion cap a worm and a flint.  Much simpler, less expensive.   ;D 

My translation of Leatherbelly's statement is ( keep it simple stupid ), AKA the ( KISS ) method.  ;D

           



               Joe. 
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: Cleaning Woes
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2011, 09:05:25 AM »
From time to time, I used to plug the vent, pour cold water into the bore and let it sit for 10 or 15 minutes, then dump it, re-fill and repeat, patching it out. Usually 6 patches would clean and dry the bore. This type of cleaning was at Rondy, while making supper and getting ready for the evening's 'events'. 

The reason I bring this up, is that Dan is correct about the fouling + water = corrosive, so I'll cease and desist this type of cleaning from now on- dumping, sloshing, patching will work just fine if I don't want to use a bucket/pump water in and out treatment. So far, I haven't damaged a barrel doing this, but just to be safe, I'll stop with the soaking.

It just worries me to let wet fouling set in the bore and it really takes no soaking from my experience.
And I wonder if we don't get too worried about things....
Dumping in water in dilutes the corrosive elements I suspect. I know that by the 2nd or 3rd slosh in as many minutes the water comes out clear.

I tend to shoot loads out when I get to the vehicle and know the day is over or if the load is getting a little long in the tooth. It does 2 things, clears the gun and gives a little practice. Last time out with my cousin before Thanksgiving  we shot several shots from his 38-55 and my flinter. I no longer had a valid tag for the area so why not? Shot the FL pistol and the rifle was already fouled so we both shot it. Pistol had been carried several days and it was due for a fresh load.

Dan
No, sir, I don't give 'em $#*!, I just tell the truth and they think it's $#*!. Harry S Truman

lakehopper

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Re: Cleaning Woes
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2011, 04:01:22 PM »
54 bucks, in Pa you can dicharge a muzzleloader in the woods at a dead tree or in the ground at the end of your day if you wish. Thanks for a valuable lesson you shared with us. You failed to mention if any bear were harvested at your camp.

Glenn

Offline 54Bucks

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Re: Cleaning Woes
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2011, 06:55:34 PM »
54 bucks, in Pa you can dicharge a muzzleloader in the woods at a dead tree or in the ground at the end of your day if you wish. Thanks for a valuable lesson you shared with us. You failed to mention if any bear were harvested at your camp.

Glenn

 Fully aware of that Glen which I do most often. But sometimes it's just not practical. Glad someone got something out of my experience. That was the point! The others can save a couple pennies to replace wood ram rods and tips when pulling a ball. Or they can waste a lot of time attempting to get enough dry prime thru the vent on a wet load to fire it off.  I especially like to do that during heavy wet snow or driving rain. I'll bet those who really like "simple" and don't carry a fine prime powder have an especially good time doing that.

Offline Frank

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Re: Cleaning Woes
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2011, 07:11:33 PM »
With a hunting load I've found it's just easier to shoot the ball out. The cleanup is a breeze with just one firing then the other route.

Yep, at the end of the day, just shoot it.

Offline frogwalking

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Re: Cleaning Woes
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2011, 05:14:37 AM »
I have a ball pulling screw for each caliber or bore I own, and find that screwed into my range rod, pulling a ball is a cinch.  I wouldn't be so quick to use one on my wood rod, but it might work too.  If you dont shoot the gun, why go through all the normal cleaning routine.  It seems an oiled patch run through should do the trick if it has not been fired.  Since old loaded guns are still showing up occasionaly, it does not seem like unfired black powder should be particularly corrosive.  If so, someone please chime in and let me know.  (I never touch the fake stuff).
Quality, schedule, price; Pick any two.

Daryl

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Re: Cleaning Woes
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2011, 05:27:00 AM »
If the wooden rod's end is pinned, there is not problem pulling a ball.  Just screw the jag into the other end, if it also has a threaded tip. Most of mine do, at least the ones I take out hunting. I carry scews, jags, worms - no problem is unsolvable - so far.  We eventually got a WD40 soaked powder charge to all go off in the .32 - THAT took time & was the last time I stored a rifle butt down. Live and learn.

roundball

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Re: Cleaning Woes
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2011, 06:11:49 AM »
For my purposes, I haven't fired a load out of a muzzleloader to empty it in almost 20 years...just creates unnecessary work and noise in my hunting area.
Not attending overnight things like rondy's, etc, I just tape the vent for the drive home, then pull the ball, blow the powder out with my air compressor, relube the bore and rack it muzzle down...save the pulled balls for use at the range.