Author Topic: Russian infantry rifle, model 1845  (Read 16202 times)

Gatling

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Russian infantry rifle, model 1845
« on: December 06, 2011, 10:49:34 AM »
Hello, you find these guns?

to begin with, how to put pictures in a forum? through which resource?

About me: I restores Russian rifles from the period 1808 to 1855. Your forum I liked, I think it will be interesting to see similar patterns of muskets.

I use a translator, so do not be surprised if something goes wrong.

In this topic I want to put photos Reconstruction Russian infantry rifle in 1845, a veteran of the Crimean War of 1853-56 year. And consider this gun
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 10:51:56 AM by Gatling »

McLeanWelsh

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Re: Russian infantry rifle, model 1845
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2011, 09:47:50 PM »
Hi there, I would upload them to tinypic.com and then copy the IMG code. place it in your post and it should work.

I would be most interested to see what muskets you have.

Cheers, McLean

Gatling

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Re: Russian infantry rifle, model 1845
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2011, 10:28:53 PM »
Thank you! Acquired the remnants of the bed and the barrel of the gun itself, modeli.1845 Then took the other details and to model.1845 novodelnoe bed.

Barrel Length overall: 112.5 cm length of the barrel without liner: 106.5 cm diameter: 19mm. There is mounting a bayonet. 1.5 cm apparently sawed off.

Year: 1852 Tula, serviceable on the trigger number # 23 240.

The very gun was hunting, from Siberia, from his hit game and hunted beast, standing in service before the Russian army, these details are interesting because of the fact that the barrel was not shortened, that the hunters always do.

photo of the former owner:





More pictures, details:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/Kypidon_De_Nor/image_4d13bd70c9a4d.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/Kypidon_De_Nor/image_4d13bd74bcf14.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/Kypidon_De_Nor/image_4d13bd7e27c56.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/Kypidon_De_Nor/image_4d13bd6bd0f75.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/Kypidon_De_Nor/image_4d13bd78752b6.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/Kypidon_De_Nor/image_4d13bd61c2cb3.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/Kypidon_De_Nor/image_4d13bd5a9d764.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/Kypidon_De_Nor/image_4d13bd3f6f130.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/Kypidon_De_Nor/image_4d13bd674783f.jpg


to be continued

« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 11:09:01 PM by Gatling »

Gatling

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Re: Russian infantry rifle, model 1845
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2011, 11:28:13 PM »
Hi there, I would upload them to tinypic.com and then copy the IMG code. place it in your post and it should work.

I would be most interested to see what muskets you have.

Cheers, McLean

What a handy resource, thanks again!

The purpose of the work, to make a gun.

Title: Russian, shock, capsule gun, model  of 1845, in the photo:




to be continued
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 11:33:08 PM by Gatling »

Offline mr. no gold

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Re: Russian infantry rifle, model 1845
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2011, 12:12:33 AM »
Thank you for showing us these rare guns which are almost never seen in America. We have enjoyed seeing then, and learning something new. We will be glad to see your future posts.
Dick

Gatling

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Re: Russian infantry rifle, model 1845
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2011, 12:27:14 AM »
Thank you for showing us these rare guns which are almost never seen in America. We have enjoyed seeing then, and learning something new. We will be glad to see your future posts.
Dick


Thank you for your attention to the topic!
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 12:36:23 AM by Gatling »

Offline TPH

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Re: Russian infantry rifle, model 1845
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2011, 12:35:31 AM »
Yes, very happy to see them. As mr. no gold said, we rarely see any Russian military firearms in this country and, being a great fan of military arms I will enjoy seeing more.
T.P. Hern

Gatling

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Re: Russian infantry rifle, model 1845
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2011, 12:38:09 AM »
To assemble the gun, had to look all over Russia, from Siberia to the gun, I live in the Urals, the tree is done in central Russia, part of the profits from the Crimea, Sevastopol, where the Crimean War took place, for me it's a big mystery, collecting parts for five years. Buy found in the ground, all over Russia. On our forums for few experts on these things, and they are very rare. I hope that will appreciate them.

Pay attention to the gun: the Russian infantry rifle, not preserved in the population in its original form, they have changed the needs of hunting, or destroyed, modified, like I said, short barrel, very few of them survived.

These weapons can be delivered in America during the Civil War, maybe you have them on sale, can anyone see this?

Very sorry, the translator is not working .... shudder to think how it reads ...It is clear that I write, or not?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 12:40:11 AM by Gatling »

Offline TPH

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Re: Russian infantry rifle, model 1845
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2011, 12:46:29 AM »
It reads reasonably well, I think we are getting what you mean.

Yes, recent research has found that indeed some Russian arms were imported to America during our Civil War of 1861 - 1865, I was unaware of this but it is documented. There were not many and they did not come directly from Russia, it appears that they were captured weapons from the Crimean War and may have come from either England or France. It appears that they all were imported by the U.S. Government for use by Union (Northern) forces, there are no reports of any coming in for Southern use. All of that being said, very few have been seen on the collector's market in this country. Yours looks quite good, you did well with the restoration..
T.P. Hern

Gatling

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Re: Russian infantry rifle, model 1845
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2011, 12:54:56 AM »
It reads reasonably well, I think we are getting what you mean.

Yes, recent research has found that indeed some Russian arms were imported to America during our Civil War of 1861 - 1865, I was unaware of this but it is documented. There were not many and they did not come directly from Russia, it appears that they were captured weapons from the Crimean War and may have come from either England or France. It appears that they all were imported by the U.S. Government for use by Union (Northern) forces, there are no reports of any coming in for Southern use. All of that being said, very few have been seen on the collector's market in this country. Yours looks quite good, you did well with the restoration..

It would be interesting to see such a gun...

I'm your gun, have not done, this picture of another gun, in the process of repairing my, pictures will be shown here
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 12:56:25 AM by Gatling »

Offline JV Puleo

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Re: Russian infantry rifle, model 1845
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2011, 02:34:21 AM »
Quite a few years ago I had a brass mounted Tula-made flint musket that was in almost unissued condition. If I remember the date on the lock correctly, it was 1834. It was a close copy of a French pattern. I've seen one other, similar musket, clearly used by indians in the Pacific Northwest. I always thought the near new one I had must have been a Crimean War trophy - perhaps collected after the fall of Sebastopol. Russian guns do turn up in England... I also was offered (a long time ago) a Russian Brunswick rifle with a long inscription on the patchbox relating to it being taken by the British Naval expedition to the Aland Islands in 1854.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Russian infantry rifle, model 1845
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2011, 03:13:15 AM »
The only Russian guns I have seen of this era have been English trophies of war from the Crimean war. Pretty rare to see them here in the USA.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline smart dog

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Re: Russian infantry rifle, model 1845
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2011, 05:08:57 AM »
Hi Gatling,
The Rifle Shoppe (www.therifleshoppe.com) carries reproduction parts for the Russian model 1845 percussion musket.  Go to their website and click on "Russian arms" to see the selection of parts.  A word of warning:  they are very, very slow to fill orders but perhaps if you are not in a hurry, they may be able to fill the voids where you cannot find original parts.  I am also assuming it is not difficult to ship items between the United States and Russia.

dave
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 05:14:14 AM by smart dog »
"Flick Lives!"

Gatling

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Re: Russian infantry rifle, model 1845
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2011, 09:16:50 AM »
Quite a few years ago I had a brass mounted Tula-made flint musket that was in almost unissued condition. If I remember the date on the lock correctly, it was 1834. It was a close copy of a French pattern. I've seen one other, similar musket, clearly used by indians in the Pacific Northwest. I always thought the near new one I had must have been a Crimean War trophy - perhaps collected after the fall of Sebastopol. Russian guns do turn up in England... I also was offered (a long time ago) a Russian Brunswick rifle with a long inscription on the patchbox relating to it being taken by the British Naval expedition to the Aland Islands in 1854.

Thank you all for participating!

And photos you no longer have? I guess the Indians are richly decorated with #rifle# ...
During the Crimean War, the soldiers at that time were even flintlocks.

The only Russian guns I have seen of this era have been English trophies of war from the Crimean war. Pretty rare to see them here in the USA.

We are driven out of Europe

Hi Gatling,
The Rifle Shoppe (www.therifleshoppe.com) carries reproduction parts for the Russian model 1845 percussion musket.  Go to their website and click on "Russian arms" to see the selection of parts.  A word of warning:  they are very, very slow to fill orders but perhaps if you are not in a hurry, they may be able to fill the voids where you cannot find original parts.  I am also assuming it is not difficult to ship items between the United States and Russia.

dave

A useful resource is a pity that we do not do this ... We've got all banned ..

I'm taking parts of Ukraine, Sevastopol, Kiev. Prices for items from $ 100 trying to collect on the year and the plant.

did not expect such interest in the topic! You have many experts on this topic.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 09:33:50 AM by Gatling »

Gatling

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Re: Russian infantry rifle, model 1845
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2011, 09:57:33 AM »
Related: Next, I bought a tree, the seller claimed that he did it on museum specimens, the most important thing for me was the size and pattern on the hands. I want to try to make myself a tree for the gun.

Tree from the city of Nizhny Novgorod



More photos;
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/Kypidon_De_Nor/image_4ec25469ea469.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/Kypidon_De_Nor/image_4ec25485e8d35.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/Kypidon_De_Nor/image_4ec2549d14aa4.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/Kypidon_De_Nor/image_4ec254b0bf524.jpg

When I received it, I realized that everything will fit on a tree. The first ring was not on this model, and I changed it to a specific part of Ukraine. Measurements made ​​under this tree with the photo, the distance between the springs are original. So much there are no errors.

Picture of this rifle, parts:


to be continued


Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Russian infantry rifle, model 1845
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2011, 03:02:59 PM »
I have only ordered from the Rifle Shoppe once and that was for left and right flint lock parts and it took nine months to get them. The story I got was that they inject their own waxes and then haul them a very long distance to a foundry. I don't know what they are now doing.
I was once stalled on a Schuetzen lock for two years because I over turned a can of acetone on the bench and it wiped out the address on the envelope the order came in. I have called them for items like a plate and hammer for a percussion Rigby lock but they never had any on the shelf.

Bob Roller

Gatling

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Re: Russian infantry rifle, model 1845
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2011, 09:09:08 PM »
Already the made work to correct photo:

Place a mechanism for



Here, an error must be corrected, "New mechanism of attachment was greater than the original":
and drown in barrel a tree


We must put in place the trigger


mechanism protruded


Square cutout was made ​​oval hole for the screw, have. And other errors


The barrel of the tree sits perfectly, no cracks, everything right

to be continued

Gatling

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Re: Russian infantry rifle, model 1845
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2011, 09:17:03 PM »
Not the topic: Did you hear about the Cossack guns? Models 1832 and 1845? These things are very rare ... I've seen in the United States is one such ... in the collection. We save only in museums, I gathered it details))

Later will be the topic

And yet, there are so many interesting things ... I wanted to ask, but there are collectors of parts on the gun? And who is interested in this?

Soon will build on the theme of Russian infantry rifle model 1808 he fought against Napoleon, too, details ...
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 09:28:50 PM by Gatling »

Offline TPH

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Re: Russian infantry rifle, model 1845
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2011, 10:06:16 PM »
I am certainly interested as are others. There are many that collect the parts of antique arms to use in restoration or as patterns for new, reproduction parts but I am afraid, as said before, there are few Russian parts available in the US.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 10:06:57 PM by TPH »
T.P. Hern

Gatling

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Re: Russian infantry rifle, model 1845
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2011, 09:37:53 AM »
I am certainly interested as are others. There are many that collect the parts of antique arms to use in restoration or as patterns for new, reproduction parts but I am afraid, as said before, there are few Russian parts available in the US.

Many people like to collect original parts and guns, without new parts, for me, the originality of a gun, the main thing.

Offline woodsrunner

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Re: Russian infantry rifle, model 1845
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2011, 06:59:49 PM »
Now that I'm an old man, I can say this with ease! It really pleases me to read this Topic! Not that I know anything about the Subject Matter! I don't! It's the origion of the Poster and the very idea that communications-desirable communications- are flowing back and forth between two groups who, just a few years ago, were very close at times to being mortal enemies! If you had any involvement in the Cold War-26 years for me-you are bound to quietly and to yourself have feelings of satisfaction that we have reached this point! Thank God that hostilities never reached the point of open warfare! Funny in a way, but I knew from very early on in my involvement that IF I could have had exposure to my counterpart in the Soviet Navy, sat down with him and had a few drinks and flirted with the Gals at the end of the day, we-he and I-would have had the potential of warefare over with in short order! It pleases me to have someone from the former Soviet Union communicating with us like this! You fellows who are up to speed on this Subject keep talking to this man! 

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Russian infantry rifle, model 1845
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2011, 08:36:18 PM »
Pardon me for being a bit skeptical.  I have an 1847 Mle de Mutzig French musket.  Every part that has been shown here is an "exact duplicate" of the parts on my musket, right down to the screws.

So, did the Tula Arsenal manufacture exact duplicates of French arms for their use, or did they purchase guns from France.  Something isn't right here.  Perhaps this was a French gun brought home from the Crimean War.

Evolution of the French Military lock.
http://home.comcast.net/~illinewek/faqs/french.htm
Dave Kanger

A dedicated person with just a pocketknife can accomplish more than a lazy person with an entire toolbox.

Gatling

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Re: Russian infantry rifle, model 1845
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2011, 09:00:08 PM »
Now that I'm an old man, I can say this with ease! It really pleases me to read this Topic! Not that I know anything about the Subject Matter! I don't! It's the origion of the Poster and the very idea that communications-desirable communications- are flowing back and forth between two groups who, just a few years ago, were very close at times to being mortal enemies! If you had any involvement in the Cold War-26 years for me-you are bound to quietly and to yourself have feelings of satisfaction that we have reached this point! Thank God that hostilities never reached the point of open warfare! Funny in a way, but I knew from very early on in my involvement that IF I could have had exposure to my counterpart in the Soviet Navy, sat down with him and had a few drinks and flirted with the Gals at the end of the day, we-he and I-would have had the potential of warefare over with in short order! It pleases me to have someone from the former Soviet Union communicating with us like this! You fellows who are up to speed on this Subject keep talking to this man!  

Thank you for your support! Because of the translator, I understand very little overall sense of well that my girlfriend English teacher)) per hour, some answers have understood) Google translator translates badly sense.

I do not remember very well the Soviet Union, I grew up after the collapse of the Soviets. My father was a sailor, and was in Canada, told me many interesting things.

I'm not entirely a collector, I do live in history, do I deal in 1812 costumes of their culture Respublkiki Bashkortostan. I am far from politics, I do not iteresno)) We are seriously exploring the city, the culture of American Indians. Study their way of life, inner peace, faith, doing demonstrations, dancing, traditional dwellings made ​​of Indians. Show and tell the children. Actively advocate for meripriyatiyah city, all of these clubs began their movement in the 1970s

The North American Indians, there is a very popular topic with our indigenous people in Bashkiria, a very similar history with the Indians. We are actively studying the history of the United States do living history since the civil wars

Here are my clubs from Ufa
Photo event on the day of the city of Ufa:










« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 09:03:06 PM by Gatling »

Gatling

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Re: Russian infantry rifle, model 1845
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2011, 09:07:55 PM »
Pardon me for being a bit skeptical.  I have an 1847 Mle de Mutzig French musket.  Every part that has been shown here is an "exact duplicate" of the parts on my musket, right down to the screws.

So, did the Tula Arsenal manufacture exact duplicates of French arms for their use, or did they purchase guns from France.  Something isn't right here.  Perhaps this was a French gun brought home from the Crimean War.

Evolution of the French Military lock.
http://home.comcast.net/~illinewek/faqs/french.htm

We did not come up with something new, and were made as the French Russian rifle model 1808 is similar to the French model of 1777 and here made ​​from French guns But the difference between the guns are, and it is not a small Model 1845 also has been copied from the French guns I know that the American Enfild, also made ​​of the French model of 1777


In Russia, the infantry rifle, bought in England before the War of 1812, even during the War of 1812 used the captured guns. Then the three arms factory made rifles, Tula, and Izhevsk Sestroretsky. After 1812 infantry rifle made ​​in Russia. Russia only bought rifled gun, it was the Belgian guns. The gun was called "lyutihskie"  Even Russia ordered a gun to the Cossacks, also in Belgium called gun "Chernolihova" model in 1859

Russia did not buy guns from France
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 09:44:54 PM by Gatling »