sideplate to lock relation

[Chris Treichel]

So while I am waiting on getting my other barrel breeched...

I have this set of origional parts... something that keeps me scratching my head is what kind of lock to marry it up with.  I am pretty much set with going flint. That side plate really looks like it combined two wood screws and one through lock bolt as it is so short that the front would only fit if it was a really small lock say in the 4 1/2 inch length range.  I keep going back to the idea of maybe just using a pistol lock as I would then be able to use two lock bolts.  What do you think? 

[smart dog]

Hi Chris,
Why do you need 2 lock bolts?  Your parts appear to me to be from a late flint or early percussion period.  The sideplate almost certainly used 2 wood screws and 1 lock bolt.  During the late flint period it was common to secure locks with only 1 bolt or "side nail".  On some locks the front was secured by a hooked lug on the inside of the plate, which hooked on the edge of a screw head imbedded in the lock mortice.

dave

[rich pierce]

Good advice above.  Also one of the major suppliers catalogues, "track", has full size pictures of the locks they sell, so you could see which ones line up.  It would be good to have a lock near in size to the sideplate else the sideplate may look like it's floating in a sea of wood.

[omark]

all good advice and i wouldnt have a problem using a pistol lock provided the rifle was of a very delicate proportion. it would look silly on a great big musket.  jmho    mark

[Chris Treichel]

Do you have a picture of that single lock bolt with a hook at the front you mention.  Trying to picture how that would be installed.

[smart dog]

Hi Chris,
Unfortunately, I don't have a photo for you.  I am certain that someone on this board will.  You also don't need to have any front attachment, just the 1 lock bolt.  You just have to make sure your lock inlet is well done and that the single bolt snugs the lock tightly up against the barrel.  Many guns during the late flint era were made that way.

dave

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Well Chris I just delivered my GA Farmer's gun with one Rear Lock bolt in the Late English RE Davis lock.....  For the nose Take an 8/32 lock bolt and drill and tap a hole in the nose of the lock plate where you usually would any way.... Cut the bolt off so that after it is screwed into the plate about 3/8" - 1/4" sticks out from the inside of the lockplate.   Bend over a short hook and file off the threads on the hook..file a dull/square point on it and file a flat surface on the side of the hook that will be toward the plate -- it needs to be about 1/8 " room between the flat of the hook and the plate so you can catch the staple with it...... put a small staple of any sort into the wood in the nose of the lock mortise so that you can slip the "Hook under it and then lower the back of the lock into the mortise..

Don't you wish I had taken a picture of it???

[Larry Luck]

Based on those parts and the desire to have a flinter (BTW, I agree), I'd suggest the Chambers Late Ketland, either as it is or with the tail rounded.

Here is one on a rifle I built a couple years ago where I rounded the tail (inlet but before polishing):



Larry Luck

[Chris Treichel]

Dr. Tim-Boone, Pictures are worth a thousand words but thank you for your explanation, I think I get the idea.  Will have to ponder it some more. 

The pistol lock I was thinking of using is an old Dixie lock the small one that says Blount Co... I also have a Davis Twigg lock and a large Siler, but I think the small one will fit best.

[Dave B]

Here is a example of the front stud to secure the lock at the front of the plate.






Note that the nose  of the  front plate inside face is rounded to allow for tipping out the lock plate. If you don't do this it will tend to pull out the anchor screw stud just like a claw hammer.

[Chris Treichel]

Thanks for the picture that is really interesting... learn something new everyday.  First time I have seen that. 

Any idea when folks started retaining locks that way?

[T*O*F]

For those guys who insist on driving out the barrel pins and removing their barrel for cleaning after each shooting session, be aware that this same method can be used to retain a barrel.

I had a gun by T. Barnes of Indiana and its disassembly defied all my efforts.  No barrel pins were evident or visible.  It appeared that only the tang screw retained the barrel.  After much cogitation, I finally figured out that the barrel could be slid forward and then lifted out.  The front pin was concealed inside a poured pewter nosecap and the others had inlays over them.  The bottom of the tang was filed flat parallel with the barrel.  The slots for the tenons were elongated to allow the barrel to slide forward; and the tenons were shaped almost exactly like the one on the lock.

[Chris Treichel]

Wow, now now that is really neat.

[Curt J]

Interesting!  I formerly owned a rifle made by "E. Barns" (Eaton Barns), who was an older  brother of "T. Barns" (Turner Barns), and also worked in southeastern Indiana.  It was made exactly the same way, with no barrel keys visible. There was a third brother who was also a gunsmith, although his name escapes me at the moment. The name stamp on the one I had spelled it "BARNS", rather than "BARNES". I have seen a number of rifles by both Eaton and Turner Barns, and all were signed without an "e".

[David R. Pennington]

supposedly a lot of Bedford style guns used concealed pins and hooked lugs.

[T*O*F]

The name stamp on the one I had spelled it "BARNS", rather than "BARNES". I have seen a number of rifles by both Eaton and Turner Barns, and all were signed without an "e".

Curt,
It was BARNS.  I can never remember which way it's spelled.

[Dennis Glazener]

It appeared that only the tang screw retained the barrel.  After much cogitation, I finally figured out that the barrel could be slid forward and then lifted out.  The front pin was concealed inside a poured pewter nosecap and the others had inlays over them.  The bottom of the tang was filed flat parallel with the barrel.  The slots for the tenons were elongated to allow the barrel to slide forward; and the tenons were shaped almost exactly like the one on the lock.

I used to own a Shetz rifle made that way. I understand it was often used in the Hampshire County WVA area.
Dennis

[Don Getz]

Joe Long, a resident of Beaver Springs, a town in Snyder County, Penna. not only made hundreds of guns in the early
1800"s, but they were all made with the hook type of underlug.   The pins were hidden behind inlays.......Don