John Bivens ??

[Ravenwolf]

Hello, could one of the builders on here, give me a general idea, history on this man, John Bivens. I keep running into old posts, gun building, styles etc. that mention him. Thanks; Ravenwolf;

[Don Getz]

I first met John Bivins in 1977, shortly after we purchased the Paris Barrel equipment.    Paris had a contract with Bivins
to supply barrels on a monthly basis for the Bicentennial rifles which John and Jack Haugh were building.  John originally
called us to make sure we would continue the contract, which we did.    Shortly after that, John wanted to visit our shop
and have pictures taken, which were used in an article in Rifle Magazine.   John, along with Bob Roberts, the photographer, Mark Silver, and Lou Sanchez spent several days with us in the shop.   Sure was a tremendous boost for
the business to have an article in Rifle Magazine, especially by  John Bivins.   John was one of the forerunners for the
"super" gun builders, or he set new standards for the craft.  We made a lot of barrels for John, also did a super damascus
barrel for a super wheellock rifle that John did.   We did not actually make the damascus blank, it was done by a guy by
the name of Griffith who lived up in the Pocono section fo Pa.   He initially had a lot of problems to come up with a solid
damascus blank.  He ended up forging a damascus shell around a piece of our standard barrel steel which we then did
our standard thing in making a barrel.   After it was finished, we made a breech plug with a hole for a fuse, and took it
to a local quarry for proofing.   We put a rather large load into the blank, along with a ball over it, and set if off.   When
we retrieved it after that first blast, and finding the barrel in one piece, John let out a mighty rebel yell, which was somewhat out of character for him.  After that initial meeting, we became good friends.......Don

[JTR]

^^^
Neat story!

John

[flintriflesmith]

The best single source for information about John is probably his section of the book, Three Centuries of Tradition The Renaissance of Custom Sporting Arms in America by Mark Silver and Wallace Gusler.

It is the companion publication or catalog of an exhibit John helped develop at the Minneapolis Institute of Art that John nelped organize and plan. Unfortunateli it is out of print and used copies are expensive. Youmay be able to borrow it through inerlibrary loan.

Ryan McNabb wrote an excellent review of the book and it is included on the Amazon web page.

http://www.amazon.com/Three-Centuries-Tradition-Renaissance-Sporting/dp/1857592891

John also wrote a book in Carolina rifle makers and it has been reprinted by Shumway Publishing.

Gary

[Don Getz]

A funny story about John.  The first gunmakers hall was merely a double booth in one of the sheep sheds of commercial
row.  They had plywood on the walls and pegs for holding guns.  Jim Chambers and Jim Flynn were sitting on a cot in
the "hall", and Bivins was busy talking to someone.  Jim Flynn said to John, "can I see that damascus knife you had made
for you?"  Bivins gave it to him and turned and continued his conversation.   Flynn said to Jim Chambers, in a loud enough
way for John to hear, "this thing is really balanced, I'll be it would stick real well", and with that said, he reached down
and picked up a small stone and threw it at the playwood which gave a resounding "whack".   Flynn said, you could hear
John's socks hit his ankles.  John was a rather "haughty" individual and did not appreciate these kinds of tricks, especially one pulled on him.  To make it worse, both Jim's were laughing way too much..............Don 

[dannybb55]

He also did excellent work at the Museum Of Early Decorative Arts at Salem, NC and was working on a book on Charleston, SC when he died, I think.

[Ravenwolf]

Great, info. and stories, so when someone says it is in the Bivens style what does this mean?? Ravenwolf;

[rich pierce]

Based on surviving specimens most original colonial and American longrifles were made in a folksy or workmanlike manner, particularly before 1790 or so.  Decoration such as carving tended to not be too elaborate or sophisticated.  There are some examples of finer work that come to mind, but it would be rare to see an engraved barrel (excepting the signature) or a gold wedding band on an American made longrifle, for example.  Such refinements were common at the same time on European arms, however.  John was among those who developed a "new school" of longrifle building with craftsmanship, finish and decoration emulating finer European work.  He did this on the palette (spell) of the American longrifle.  he would just highly refine a carving so that it was still recognizable as linked to Lancaster, for example, and you would recognize the rifle as a 1770's Lancaster rifle, but when you got close you would see it was finer and had some signatures not found on originals.

He was an outstanding historian and writer and influenced a large number of makers in the 1970's and 1980's.  His influence is still seen today.  If you look at some of Jim Kibler's work, it seems to me to flow from the same wellspring that John Bivins tapped.

John also became a celebrated cause for guns rights advocates when he was making a large number of Bicentennial rifles as Don Getz told us about above.  The BATF decided he was a "manufacturer" and wanted to apply Pittman-Roberston (spell) taxes to his arms.  John disagreed and fought it in court.  The Buckskin Report by John Baird and others championed a "John Bivins Defense Fund".  I believe eventually it was decided that by and large, muzzleloaders made by smaller shops were exempt.

There are tons of stories and myths about John Bivins.  The one I like to propogate is that Jim Chambers trained him.   

[Bill]

If, by chance, you should ever see Jack Haugh ask him to tell you about his experiences with John Bivins. Very entertaining!

[flintriflesmith]

Here is a link to John's obituary.
http://antiquesandthearts.com/TT0-08-28-2001-08-00-39

In addition to being a very talented rifle builder, John was well know in other fields of the antiques world. In many ways he was a 20th-century Renaissance man.

John once described his own rifles as German sporting rifles built in the style of a longrifle. Rich nailed it when he said that John was responsible for developing one of the "new schools" of rifle making. His style and the quality of the art were his and he made no pretense that they were period correct.

Gary

[Dave B]

I had the blessing of taking a carving class taught by John in 97 though the NMLRA gunsmithing school at Bowling Green KY. It is one of my fondest memories ever. I carved two projects that week he supervised. One was a long rilfe I had stocked and the other was a CVA Pilladelphia Derringer I had rebuilt. He looked over my shoulder and said "Isn't that like trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear".  I knew the rifle I brought was going to be for sale to pay for my class and wanted a momento of my week with John directing my steps. This is that derringer.

[westbj2]

Not necessarily in order John was a scholar, a teacher, a writer, a mentor, an artist  and a humorist.   
Both Monte Mandarino and Mark Silver worked as apprentices with him.   Perhaps the greatest tribute to John and his ability to teach and inspire is a phrase that I have heard regarding this relationship with Monte and Mark.
"It is a case of the students eclipsing the teacher".   

Jim Westberg

[kutter]

I never got to meet him sadly,,only to talk with him on the phone a few times.
I read his articles with great interest. Everything so simple to understand.
At the end of one article he printed a phone # and said for anyone wishing help or to simply discuss the subject in the article to call him. So I did.
Wonderful person to talk to on the phone,,really wish I could have met him in person.

I do believe he lost that battle with the Gov't over the excise tax and penaltys re: the Penna. Bi-Centennial Long Rifles.
His stand was taken on the side of they were not 'firearms' under GCA68, so no excise tax was due.
The Gov't ( IRS) said for Tax purposes their definition of 'firearm' applied to building M/Lrds and then selling them. So Fed excise tax was due, plus penaltys of over due tax.
That's how I recall it anyway.

As of now I understand it to be less than 50 pieces per year built are exempt from excise tax.
But the Tax return for Excise is suposed to be filed anyway.
That's a fairly resent ruling (2003?) and covers M/L as well as cartridge gun builders.
Many M/L suppliers switched to a separate bbl supplier to fill their 'kits' as a result so a complete gun wasn't being sold under one suppliers name.
Hopefully side stepping an excise tax situation should the gov't decide a pile of parts that could become a rifle is a 'firearm' and taxable.

The battle over the BiCentennial rifles continues..

[EC121]

I have a John Bivins rifle built in 1972.  It is based on the Vogler family of Carolina rifle builders.  A friend had ordered three of them over the years, and I happened to be there when he wanted to sell one.    .45cal. straight barrel.  When I started shooting in 1977, his seemed to be the most desired rifleds around.  He made a mistake engraving the patchbox and didn't see it until my friend pointed it out when he delivered it.  I wonder if he engraved it or someone else in the shop did and that is why he didn't know about the error until delivery.  Does anyone out there know if he had apprentices in 1972?

[westbj2]

EC
The rifle you have is some of John's earlier work being done in 1972.  To my knowledge he was working alone until 77 or 78 when Monte came to Winston-Salem.
Jim

[Don Getz]

In addition to Monte and Mark, John also had an apprentice by the name of Bobby Denton.  Bobby was also a song writer
and spent a lot of time in Nashville.   Whenever you would see a gun by Bobby you could see the Bivins influence...........
Don

[EC121]

This rifle has a open twisting vine/rope border on each side of the patchbox and a piercing in each twist.  Due to the twist, the engraving is an over and under type.  He did one side of the box all one way.  So it looks like one piece laying on top of the other instead of twisting.  I like it , because it gives the rifle a sort of homemade feeling.  People usually don't even notice it.

[Shreckmeister]

Don,  Do you know what edition of Rifle Magazine that Bivins article was in?  I have a stack of
late 70s Rifle Magazines and I'd like to find it.

[Jim Kibler]

I never knew John, as I got involved in this stuff after he had passed away.  It's always fun to hear stories of John that arise so often when I'm around others who knew him well.  It seems to me one of the biggest impacts John had in the gunbuilding world was to elevate the starndards for good craftsmanship and quality work.  If you look at work done in the 70's and before much of it was pretty rudimentary.  There was of course good work being done by notable builders of this time, but much of it was lacking in a pretty big way.  Through all of John's articles and influence it seems to me he educated and elevated the perceptions of what quality work is.  Now with this said, from some perspectives, his standards and expectations were beyond what is appropriate for an American longrifle, but nonetheless this approach elevated gunbuilding in a big way and his impact is still visible today.

Jim

[The other DWS]

It also appears to me that because of his stature in the arts and antiques community as well as his access to the media, he did much to create general public of the ALR beyond the Old-timey-rifle/bad movie&TV serial stage.  you might say he helped get them, and those of us who are interested students of them, out of the gun closet