.58 Fullstock Flint Hawken, Hail and Farewell

[Herb]

My dear old Hawken is too long and heavy (9 lbs 7 oz) for me to shoot off-hand, so I refurbished it and shot some last targets at 100 yards today.  Carney Pace is taking it up to the Rocky Mountain National Rendezvous and will put it on his blanket, for sale.  I want to build an English Sporting Rifle, .54 flint, shorter and lighter.  I have  .50 and .54 swamped Chambers (Rice) barrels, and am keen to build them both.  Today I shot 120 grains of weight-calibrated measured charges of Goex 2F with .562 balls and .020 linen on Target 1 and .570 and .020 OxYoke on Target 2.

Third target was 100 grains (weight-calibrated measure) of Swiss 3F and .570 balls and .020 OxYoke.  This load did not foul the bore, no wiping.  For these tests, I installed a brass filler in the rear sight (removed before this photo).  That hole sees 36" at 100 yards, and the front sight covers 8 inches.  The filler had an .090 hole, sees about 14".  I made these targets from poster board.  A 6 O'clock hold covers the bottom half of the circle anyway, so I only needed half a circle.  The target was easy to aim on.  The 120 grain measure is a .416 Rem. Mag case with an extension of a 7mm Rem Mag case slipped over the neck, filed to be 120 grains of Goex 2F.  The 100 grain Swiss 3F case is a .300 Win Mag case with a soldered extension to hold 90 grains of Goex 2f, then a 1/32" extension taped on, which now holds 100 grains of Swiss 3F.  This is a great rifle, but I have more to build.

[Daryl]

Shooting good Herb - except for #4 shot first target and #1 shot on the second, they also are in the 2" to 2 1/2" bracket.  It is so easy to throw one when shooting at longer ranges. Good shooting rifle. My own heavy .58 Hawken (34" X 1 1/8" Oct.) started shooting well with 140gr. It had a Bill Large barrel. I used .022" a "brushed" denim with .575" pure lead balls.

[smokinbuck]

Herb,
If you get around to the English sporting rifle and want to consider a heavier caliber, I have a Sharon 1"X33" in .62 caliber with a 1-66 ROT. It is breached and set up for flint. Let me know if there's any interest.
Mark

[Herb]

Thanks, both.  Smokinbuck, that would make a good elk rifle, but I'm going with the .54.  There was no snow last winter and I don't expect any this.  Maybe I can draw for antelope next year, and I'd really prefer the .50 for that, but will make the .54 in case I buy a general elk bull license to hunt this fall.

[hanshi]

That certainly is very fine shooting and that rifle seems to be a genuine tack driver.

[heelerau]

Hey Herb, some good shootin!!  Just had an email blocked by the company thought police from Carney, is Neil going to the rondy as well??


Cheers

Gordon

[Herb]

Yes, Carney and Jean left today,  Neill and Lynn are up there, Harry Harpoon is Segundo.  I'm going up Tuesday.

[Herb]

I still have my big .58, so it is going to be for sale up at the Fort Bridger Rendezvous over Labor Day weekend.  Along with one more .54 caplock Hawken copy and hopefully a second, which I am nearly finished with, this one with a .54 Green River barrel.

[Herb]

So I went out today to shoot three of my Hawkens, two .54 caplocks and the .58 flintlock.  The first two shot very well with correct velocities.  By then the sun was looking down into my sensors and the readings went screwy.  If you enlarge the photo below, you can see them.  The Oehler 35P reads the velocity twice, the first two feet and then the second two feet on my bar.  If they disagree by some small amount, the printer puts an asterisk by the reading.  The second one (on the right) is farther away and thus a little slower than the first reading.  But some of these reverse that.   Will have to shoot this again.  Also, this velocity probably averaged 1640 fps with 140 grains of the same Goex 2F that 120 grains (above) gave 1625 fps.  It should have been about 1700 fps plus.  Same temperature, 85 to 88 degrees, same components.

This was 100 yards from rest with my big hunting sights, a round hole in the rear sight that sees 36" at 100 yards with a front sight that covers 8 inches.  Very easy to hold on the target.  I put a wet patch on the seating jag and thus wiped the bore down as I seated the ball each time, but the sixth ball seated through heavy fouling the last 6 or 8 inches.  Kinda had to pound it home.  All the .020 Eastern Maine Shooting Supply patches were good, even for the last shot, with no over powder wad.  But next time I will wipe the bore after each shot and hopefully produce a bragging group like the three above, but will go back to 120 grains.  I tapped the rear sight .024 left to center the group, afterwards.

[Daryl]

That was interesting, Herb.  I'd suggest the load needs to be re-shot, due to the consistency of 4 shots, 2 through 5, ie: 1 flier in a 6 shot group.  The #6 shot could easily be a flier- ie; poor hold, etc.

What is more interesting is the consistency and velocity you got with the 100gr. Swiss 3F load and seemingly no fouling at the breech.  The chrono readings are strange and nasty things happen when the sun if fierce and diffusers aren't wide enough to protect the 'eyes'.  I've no explanation for the readings - just strange.  for me, every one of those readings would be highly suspect.

  The only Oehler chronograph I've used is my first one, a Model 12 or maybe 11. Since then, I've use only PACT and my Beta Master Chrony or is it the other way around?

By the looks of your testing, I'd be retesting the Swiss as well as 120gr. through 140gr. of 2F GOEX - maybe some 3f GOERX as well.  Too, shooting more 5 shot groups with each load would give more reliable results.

That the 3f Swiss fouler is in the group looks promising, but could also be a fluke - such are the results of single groups, statistically. That time, it worked, with no guarantees.

[Herb]

Thanks, Daryl.  I value your experience and input.   The first fouler shot was out of the group because I had the barrel out of the stock in cleaning after the last session.  This settled it in the stock.  No. 3 could be how I saw the target.  But No. 6 was due to that fouling, I think.  I made a mistake on the sight correction- that was on my .54 caplock off two inches to the right at 50 yards.  I have not yet moved the .58 sight, and it will need only half that amount.  I sure have fun shooting this rifle!  But it is just too heavy for me to shoot off-hand, so I have a .54 English sporting rifle flintlock stock sawed out of walnut, for a 31" Chambers (swamped) barrel.  Going to get the stock from Neill this morning, I started sawing it out by hand and he caught me at it and took the stock to his bandsaw.  I think I still have my first Oehler 11, made my own screens from aluminum foil and cardboard, even large enough to hit at 400 yards with my .244.

[Daryl]

You'll really like shooting the English Gun, I'm sure. They should fit & point like a fine shotgun, albeit slightly heavier.
Here's one Taylor built on a nice Maple stock, but of course, it's a more modern cap gun along Purdey styling.

[Bob Roller]

 The ultimate muzzle loader IMHO. Compact,stunning good looks and if it's a .451.
very potent performance. Fine work in capital letters.

Bob Roller

[Herb]

So, Daryl, I shot the Swiss 3F load again today at 100yards, with .570 balls and .020 OxYoke and then .562 and .020 linen.  The wind was gusty just before a storm, and I was off the target.  The bore got gritty so I had to wipe between shots.

Just had time to shoot the 120 grains of Goex 2F and .526 balls and .020 linen, and the rifle likes that.  I guess those two to the right are due to wind, though I tried to shoot  during the lulls.

Tomorrow I go to the Fort Bridger Rendezvous and will take the rifle along to sell.
You may see me walking around with it.   My friend Boone (Fort Boone is his store) will have photos of it plus my contact info.  I really like to shoot it, but it is too heavy for my off-hand shooting, and not much chance to kill a bull elk with it, so will build a shorter and lighter flintlock, an English Sporting Rifle.  Stock already sawed out.  If you see me at Bridger, say hello.

[Roger Fisher]

My ol .45 Getz started to shoot to 3 O'clock side by 3 inches at 100 from X stix last few weeks and I blamed myself and she was consistent.  Grouped well so I started to suspect the sight/sights got bumped (although they both are punched in place.  (non adjustable ones they are).  Finally took her to the range with my sight hammering kit shot 7 shots in calm air all in 8 and 7 rings at 3 O'clock. Bench...  I took the bull by the 'horns' and moved the r sight a frog hair by witness mark and now she's in the 9 and 10 rings so I hope she stays that way.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Treat her nice Roger!!