Author Topic: thimbles-diamond facetted  (Read 7204 times)

Offline bob in the woods

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thimbles-diamond facetted
« on: July 07, 2008, 07:06:10 AM »
I saw a longrifle with diamond shaped facrts on the thimbles. ie the flats were filed in a diamond/triangle
shape. Brass thimbles, but alternate facets appearred to be silver. Very fancy. I was thinking of trying this on a pistol, but I'm stumped on how to do it. Anyone made something like this??
If so, are there any "secrets" re making them? I'll keep thinking about it ; as I do some of my best thinking while I'm asleep.

Offline E.vonAschwege

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Re: thimbles-diamond facetted
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2008, 07:47:56 AM »
It's late and I'm typing this from a new computer (ahh, I miss my old POS), so this will be brief.  I think I know what you mean about the diamond facetted pipes, particularly on German and other high-art European guns.  I haven't seen the silver and brass alternating, but here's what occured to me when you mentioned it:  Shape the thimble entirely, as close to finished as you can.  Then take some silver brazing, flux the whole thimble and "tin" the thimble with a good coat of silver.  Afterwards file away where you don't want silver to be, it probably wouldn't take too much work.  Wonder how else it'd be done?
-Eric
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Offline bob in the woods

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Re: thimbles-diamond facetted
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2008, 10:14:50 PM »
Thanks, that is pretty much what I came up with! It's easier to take off the silver selectively, than put it on selectively. A little too fancy for my taste on a rifle, but should look cool on a pistol.

Scott Brush

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Re: thimbles-diamond facetted
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2008, 11:15:14 PM »
Bob,

This is my first attempt at posting a picture on the new site so if it works, here's a picture of a thimble with diamond facets (all brass).

Is this what you're referring to?  I can offer no knowledge of how to do this but thought this might help you get a quicker response.

Scott


Offline davec2

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Re: thimbles-diamond facetted
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2008, 11:54:51 PM »
Bob,

Silver electroplating is the easiest way to do what you are looking for.  File the shape, polish, silver plate (heavy), and then polish off the silver where you don't want it.  The more correct way to do this would be to prep the brass and then mask the areas you don't want to plate (by painting with asphaltum varnish - just asphalt and paint thinner).  Then plate as usual and wash off the mask with acetone or thinner or whatever solvent is handy.

Another, more period correct way, is to make up a small amount of an amalgam of silver and mercury (same stuff they jam in your teeth) but use a little more mercury than the dentist does.  Rub the brass with it and the mercury will join the silver to the brass.  (It will look like it is smearing all over the surface).  Take it outside some place with plenty of ventilation and put it on a hot plate and let the part get to a dull red.  Don't breath any of the fumes that come off.  When it gets red, turn off the hot plate and let it all cool down.  The brass part will be coated in a fairly thick coat of silver.  Polish it off anywhere you don't want it and burnish it where you want to keep it.

Now before you get a bunch of frantic responses about mercury poisioning (ad infinitum, ad nauseum), if you don't suck up a huge lung full of mercury vapor, it's not a problem.  I have been using amalgamated gold and silver for 50 years.  Most of us have a mouth full of silver amalgam.  If your afraid of mercury, don't use the fire gilding method just described.

The silver solder method you described is possible, but not very controlable.  You might have better luck using a low fusing silver solder and attaching very thin silver plates where you want them.
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Offline Stophel

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Re: thimbles-diamond facetted
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2008, 12:49:34 AM »
They used to do a leaf overlay.  The part would be covered with lead/tin solder, and then the gold/silver/brass leaf applied, reheated, and the leaf soldered to the part.

As to making the diamonds.  I would imagine that you would need a relatively thick cast rod pipe.  Sheet ones get pretty thin when filing to octagon as is.  Just file the octagon shape, then knock off the corners to make the diamonds.
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Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: thimbles-diamond facetted
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2008, 01:02:48 AM »
Just file the octagon shape, then knock off the corners to make the diamonds.

 Gosh that sounds simple...I have enough trouble geting to octagon. I am trying to make a set for a 25. now, if they all didn't have to match I'd be ok. Take a little off this one...take a little off this one, oops, to much well back to the first one, no it looks like the entry pipe without the tang, just make a new one and the pile of pipes that don't match gets larger.

 Tim C.



PS: I have made 7/17, 3/8 and 5/16 or so but for some reason these little ones are kickn' my butt.


« Last Edit: July 08, 2008, 01:05:15 AM by Tim Crosby »

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: thimbles-diamond facetted
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2008, 01:21:07 AM »
Thanks for posting that photo, Scott. That is exactly what I am talking about. First order of business is the filing. Then, depending...I'll see about the silver part! I will probably have to use some thicker brass stock. My flats are usually more suggested, than actual. 

Offline Rolf

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Re: thimbles-diamond facetted
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2008, 09:17:55 AM »
I liked the diamond thimble effect. Where they used on kentucky pistols?

I'm working on a matching pair of kentucky pistols and I'm making all the furniture from sterling silver sheet stock.

Rigth now, I'm experimenting with making different type of designs for thimbles .
I'm doing the test rounds in 1mm thick sheet brass (0.04 "). Is this thick enough for diamonds? If not how thick shoud it be?

Best regards

Rolfkt

Offline E.vonAschwege

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Re: thimbles-diamond facetted
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2008, 07:36:12 PM »


 Gosh that sounds simple...I have enough trouble geting to octagon. I am trying to make a set for a 25. now, if they all didn't have to match I'd be ok. Take a little off this one...take a little off this one, oops, to much well back to the first one, no it looks like the entry pipe without the tang, just make a new one and the pile of pipes that don't match gets larger.


Hey Tim, don't kick yourself so much.  The original American longrifles were almost never "perfect", far from it infact.  Jerry H said in the ALR.com that most of them wouldn't win ribbons at Dixon's, I tend to agree with that. 

I've also come to embrace the phrase "perfection is the enemy of good enough".  I can't recall where I heard that, might have been right here, but keep it in mind when the flats on the RR pipe aren't lining up quite right.  In a few days they won't even bother you.  Looking forward to Dixon's!
-Eric
Former Gunsmith, Colonial Williamsburg www.vonaschwegeflintlocks.com