Author Topic: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer  (Read 18742 times)

Offline acorn20

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Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« on: December 29, 2008, 07:24:07 PM »
I've been hunting with muzzleloaders since 1973; the first year I had a muzzleloader.  Since then, I've accumulated a few more guns and have taken deer with my percussion longrifles in regular deer season; taken deer with my flintlocks in flintlock season and I'm still after a turkey with my muzzleloading shotgun. The point I'd like to make is that I haven't had any guns made that just hang above the mantle; I enjoy shooting them and hunting with each of them.

My most recent acquisition is a David Price swivel breech kit.  I recently took it hunting last weekend and after returning to our home base, one of the fellows asked if my swivel breech was legal to hunt deer in PA.  I told him it was a flintlock, of single ignition, and that as far as I was knew it was legal.  However, I THINK I'M WRONG!  I read the game law last night and it states "Only single barrel flintlock ignition long guns .44 caliber or larger with open iron sights propelling a single spherical lead ball using a cloth patch are permitted."  I think this might be the same requirement from 1976 when muzzleloading season was established in PA. 

I know I'm not the only person hunting in Pennsylvania with a swivel breech as I've talked with some fellows up at Dixon's this past summer.  I doubt if the Commissioners for the PA Game Commission would even know what a swivel breech is.  What I'd like to know is how do the game laws differ between states.  What's the requirement for muzzleloading in the state where you live? Please advise and thanks.

Dan
Dan Akers

Daryl

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Re: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2008, 07:58:51 PM »
Side hammer, open sighted muzzleloader - listed for primitive deer season - wayyyyy, up North & late.  No primitive season doww here, except for bows first 10 days of Sep.

omark

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Re: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2008, 09:30:22 PM »
single barrel firing single projectile.    colorado

Offline Telgan

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Re: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2008, 09:45:53 PM »
Don't know about in PA, but it's not legal in VT. Only one barrel allowd here. Tom

Offline Robby

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Re: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2008, 10:53:18 PM »
New York:" Muzzleloading firearm- is a firearm loaded through the muzzle, shooting a single projectile and having a minimum bore of .44 inch." 2008-09 official guide to laws and regulations, volume 2, issue no.1 October 2008
I don't know the "intention" behind the wording of your or my state regulation, but a fair case could be made, that a swivel breech is legal.
molon labe
We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. A. Lincoln

Daryl

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Re: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2008, 04:18:34 PM »
What's the reasoning behind regulating against double rifles? Anyone know?  They were popular in the Eastern States in the 1800's.  Even ned Roberts hunted Vermont with one as a boy - a William Reed .44 cal shooting a picket bullet. I think it was Vermont.  Memory's a bit fuzzy. Long time sincer I read the book - over 30 years.

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2008, 10:07:14 PM »
anything goes TN:

We have two rules:  "incapable of being loaded from the breech" and ".40 cal minimum."

A regular Buckskin Rogers paradise. ::)

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Daryl

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Re: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2008, 10:16:13 PM »
Wade- would being able to pull the primer breech out and shove a bullet then powder in, then screw back the primer plug count as a breech loader? ie: linline.

northmn

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Re: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2008, 02:02:24 AM »
In Minnesota the regulations state muzzleloader, no restrictions on doubles.  40 cal and above for rifles, 45 for smoothbores (Darn interesting distinction), no scopes but are working on it.  A statement made by the MN DNR seems to reflect that they do not consider ML's significant in counting the number of deer taken and hence permit both does and bucks in all areas.

DP

ottawa

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Re: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2008, 04:07:42 AM »
in Ohio  load from muzzle single projectile single or double barrel smooth or rifle 40cal longgun no ml hand gun

Offline Jerry V Lape

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Re: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2008, 04:17:04 AM »
Strangely enough, Arizona, which makes a .22 Hornet legal for centerfires for elk and buffalo, and who's commisioners maintain the muzzleloader season is not a primitive season; says single barrel, load from muzzle, single projectile in defining muzzleloader.  It could still be a .32 cal muzzleloader for elk if you want.  No minimum caliber specified. 

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2008, 05:07:35 AM »
Wade- would being able to pull the primer breech out and shove a bullet then powder in, then screw back the primer plug count as a breech loader? ie: linline.
Depends on the motives of the prosecutor that day. :o  Many of our game laws were obviously written by law-school dropouts who found a happy home in the legislature (sorry guys you know it's true) and I doubt they'd stand under serious judicial examination.

As it is, I'll bet you could mount a ramrod under any bolt gun with scope and nobody would look twice at it--unless they heard the shot.

But then most of the time the violations are quite clear and fines are paid and everything goes on as usual.

On a better note-I may poke around the game lobby (yes we have one) and see how a primitive season might fly.  Methinks adding it to part or all of the very generous archery seasons and/or making one of the two ML seasons primitive only would be dandy.  The early ML is prime pre-rut. ;)

But if they don't, tha's fine too.  I know what I'll be toting.
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Dave K

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Re: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2008, 05:24:47 AM »
Ottawa, not to lead Ohio hunters astray. Ohio min. cal. is 38. on pg. 8 in the 2008-2009 Ohio Hunting & Trapping Regulations. I did a double check, because I have carried my 38 at times for years and I thought I better look to see if they changed it.

Offline Scott Bumpus

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Re: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2008, 06:08:24 AM »
On what wade and daryl were saying :  Here in tennessee they are wanting to thin down the doe herd so much that unless you are doing something really stupid i dont think they will pay much attention to the gun type.  All of the commercial type inlines I have seen are legal.  Along the tennessee river the EHD breakout thined down the herd by 40 to 80 percent.
YOU CAN ONLY BE LOST IF YOU GIVE A @!*% WHERE THE $#*! YOU ARE!!

Offline acorn20

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Re: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2008, 06:11:55 AM »
I appreciate all the feedback concerning other states' flintlock regulations.  I might add that PA does have an early muzzleloading season in which inline muzzleloaders can be used and they can be used in the regular deer season.  For that matter, any flintlock or percussion rifle can be used in the regular deer season as well.  But I've always been proud that Pennsylvania has stuck to their guns in that only flintlocks can be used in the primitive season.  I just wish they would make the primitive season the third week in November instead of the three weeks after Christmas.

A couple years back Tony Knight was making a case around the PA legislature in how inhumane hunting with a flintlock and round ball was.  I understand he tried like the devil to get inlines included in the primitive season.  I'm glad no one listened.

Dan
Dan Akers

tg

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Re: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2008, 06:26:04 AM »
It is amazing how the inline peddlers seem to forget how well the PRB worked for deer before someone modifed a modern centerfire to load from the front for some  morons who could not figure out how to operate a simple TC caplock and get close enough to a deer to shoot it.

Offline Robby

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Re: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2008, 06:31:18 AM »
I'd take a primitive only season, even if it was only two weeks, and after Christmas
molon labe
We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. A. Lincoln

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2008, 09:52:37 AM »
...

A couple years back Tony Knight was making a case around the PA legislature in how inhumane hunting with a flintlock and round ball was.  I understand he tried like the devil to get inlines included in the primitive season.  I'm glad no one listened.

Dan
Hmmm, wonder what's in it for him?  ::) ::) ::)
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northmn

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Re: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2008, 04:12:29 PM »
We tried to get an earlier season in Minnesota.  ML's sold like hotcakes before the legislators settled on late Nov early Dec.  Then were sold off about as fast. That time frame in Minnesota is kind of tricky and happens after the modern hunters get the deer pretty spooky and thinned out.  Weather can also play hob.  I tried it for three seasons.  The first time I was wading above my knees in snow.  The second time I got a deer and it was good weather.  this year I tried it because you could buy a license if you did not fill your regular firearms tag.  Bad weather again and darn cold.  I do not know for sure, but I would guess that about half of the deer taken by traditional ML's are taken during the regular rifle season.  Deer hunting gets to be something of a family affair so they hunt with family during that time and the weathers better.  In many situations the ML is not all that much of a handicap.  As to Mr. Knight's whining concerning his rifles being primitive, you get amused reading the ads on how you hunt without the fuss and all the advantages and then how they cry when a DNR takes their ads seriously.  Their latest tactic seems to be knocking the effectiveness of the traditional rifles, which is what "primitive" is all about.  Primitive is a idiotic term anyway.  A longbow is primitive, a ML is historical.  We hunt with historical arms, not primitive ones.   We are handicapped by range and firepower yes, but primitive they are not.  I really think we missed the boat on legislation when we did not define ML's better.

DP

Offline alex e.

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Re: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2008, 05:31:26 PM »
It was my understanding that a few years ago  PA. changed it to "Flintlock muzzleloader season" for just such a reason.But in Pa. if you posess a Ml stamp you can use a crossbow in that season?????? ??? ???
IMO anything with wheels or plastic is not primitive.
Quoting the Pa game rules "flintlock ignition,single barrel long guns manufactuerd prior to 1800,or a similiar reproduction of an original ML single barrel long gun......"
  By my logic ,all these store bought , plastic,T/C , Traditions& all the other junk sold
is not legal.But what do I know >:(
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Offline Longknife

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Re: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2008, 07:15:31 PM »
Illinois:

Single or double barreled muzzleloading rifles of at least .45 cal. shooting a single projectile through a barrel of at least 16 inches in length.

The minimum size of the projectile shall be .44 cal.

A muzzleloading firearm is defined as a firearm that is incapable of being loaded from the breech.

Percussion caps, (shotgun primers are legal percussion caps), wheelock, matchlock or flint type ignitions only may be used except the CVA electronic ignition  shall be legal to use.

NOTE, I read some where that a smoothbore is also legal but the rules do not state that, I will have to confirm that as I have been useing a smoothy for several years....Ed
« Last Edit: December 31, 2008, 07:16:22 PM by Longknife »
Ed Hamberg

Daryl

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Re: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2008, 07:56:58 PM »
There's a bloke over on nitroexpress.com, which has a muzzleloading section, who makes inlines from 98 Mausers.  It's just like any other in-line with a bolt, except the bolt is larger and longer.  He thinks they are beautiful and got a mite upset when I called them an "abomination".

Offline markwi

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Re: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2008, 08:46:55 PM »
In Wisconsin muzzleloaders must be .45 cal if smoothbore, .40 cal. or larger if rifled and must be a singleball or slug to be legal for deer hunting. ( during our ten day hunt). Must have a solid thread breech plug and only able to be loaded from the muzzle, may not have a telescopic sights (1 power or less are legal). Inlines are legal to use during our 10 day muzzleloader hunt. This is all for our 10 day muzzleloading hunt. Mark

northmn

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Re: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2009, 05:10:17 PM »
Daryl, I was called a snob when a gentleman on another site posted a picture of a pistol gripped "Hawken" with a rubber recoil pad and I commented that it was really not a Hawken.  That same person later commented on how tickled GGG Grandfater would have been to have had a gun of the TC Hawkens quality.  One really wishes one could say what was on ones mind at times. 
Am I correct that most states open their ML seasons after the regular deer season?

DP

Daryl

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Re: Flintlock regulations for hunting deer
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2009, 07:59:01 PM »
DP- some people, such as the GGGfather one, come up with their opinions honestly - afterall, TC themselves advertised that 'Ol Sam would have been proud to have a TC hawken.  That Add - was placed on the box itself. No wonder people are led astray - I was-  for a very short period of time.

An old guy near the town in which I was a Policeman became my best friend and he and Irene were almost like a Mother and Father to me.  Lester H. Hawkes was his name, a machinist from Kalispel Mt, friend of Les Bauska and employee at one time of John Buhmiller, now gone to his reward showed me pictures of him back in Tennessee in the 30's, with a long squirrel rifle he'd made. He also showed me some pictures he'd 'made' of 'real' Hawkens he'd seen around the US.  Les also showed me a bundle of Bauska Barrels, explaining the difference between them and the TC with their cut rifling.  Of course, this led me to redesign the stock of my rifle as best I could, and to mount a Bauska barrel on it.  I then had a rifle I was proud to own, but it was still not a Hawken.  In a few years, I'd made my own rifle, while in the meantime, Taylor was transferred back onto the mainland from the northern island and was building them from parts he was buying State's Side.

 This sport and hobby is a learning experience. We never stop learning. Some latitude must be given - advertising today, and yesterday, is a powerful tool of the manufacturer and jobber.  Over time, people learn, some more quickly than others, depending on their acquaintances.