Author Topic: Visit to German museum (Read 12564 times)

eddillon · « **on:** March 22, 2013, 10:20:10 PM »

Went on my annual trip to the IWA outdoor trade show in Nurnberg, Gemany. Took my camera this time because I planned to visit old friends in the medieval walled town of Rothenberg. Rothenberg has a city museum called the Reichstadtmuseum. This former cloister is home to a fabulous collection of firearms, edged weapons and armor. I have visited it a few time prior to this so I decided to limit this visit to the hall containing sporting firearms and accoutrement. Uppermost in my mind was to observe the style of 17th and 18th century longarms andd how the style influenced the features and designs of the longarms of 18th century America. There is no doubt in my mind that the greatest influence on American longarms comes from Germany. many will dispute that and point to the British Isles. To those I say that the British were influenced by German makers. I hope that this post sparks friendly debate. I'll let my photos of German longarms speak for me.

Notice the octagonal barrel on this rifle. No 5 axis CNC machines back then. How did they make the right hand side flat become the top flat? Twist or time consuming file work. Food for discussion.

Buck · « **Reply #1 on:** March 22, 2013, 11:07:58 PM »

This my be a stupid question, but do you think they rifled it before they twisted the barrel?
Buck

tallbear · « **Reply #2 on:** March 22, 2013, 11:25:53 PM »

Quote

How did they make the right hand side flat become the top flat?

While i don't know for sure I would suspect that after welding the tube and hammering it octagon that they heated it evenly and gave it a twist.Then cleaning up the bore with an armorers bit ,reaming and rifling.Twisting large cross sections of iron while hot is a lot more impressive in looks than it is difficult to do.

Thanks you for the pics ED!!!!!!!!!

Mitch Yates

mr. no gold · « **Reply #3 on:** March 22, 2013, 11:37:41 PM »

Great material and the stuff for many a dialog. Thank you for posting the photographs.
Dick

eddillon · « **Reply #4 on:** March 22, 2013, 11:38:40 PM »

Quote from: Buck on March 22, 2013, 11:07:58 PM

This my be a stupid question, but do you think they rifled it before they twisted the barrel?
Buck

I thought about that but ruled it out after thinking of the effect on the bore.

alyce-james · « **Reply #5 on:** March 22, 2013, 11:50:22 PM »

eddillon; Sir, Thanks for sharing your pictures from your annual trip. Besides the great quality and subject matter they were very educational and in lighting for me. Hope you had a great time on your trip, as I see it you sure had a positive experience. Thanks again, AJ.

eddillon · « **Reply #6 on:** March 22, 2013, 11:53:55 PM »

In Germany? That beer? That comfort food? How could a person go wrong? BTW, i am now on a weight loss diet!

eddillon · « **Reply #7 on:** March 23, 2013, 12:00:24 AM »

The firearms in the museum represent a small portion of the collection of Herr Baumann who resides in Rothenberg.

Dan'l 1946 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 23, 2013, 12:18:21 AM »

To my eye, the top rifle in the first photograph could easily be mistaken for an early American longrifle. Thanks for the photos Ed. Got any more?
Dan

eddillon · « **Reply #9 on:** March 23, 2013, 12:35:36 AM »

Quote from: Dan'l 1946 on March 23, 2013, 12:18:21 AM

To my eye, the top rifle in the first photograph could easily be mistaken for an early American longrifle. Thanks for the photos Ed. Got any more?
Dan

Dan,
Have a look at this thread:
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=25497.0

James Wilson Everett · « **Reply #10 on:** March 23, 2013, 01:49:46 AM »

Rothenberg is certainly one of my favorite places to visit!!

Jim

eddillon · « **Reply #11 on:** March 23, 2013, 02:29:10 AM »

Quote from: James Wilson Everett on March 23, 2013, 01:49:46 AM

Rothenberg is certainly one of my favorite places to visit!!

Jim

Mine too.

Jim Chambers · « **Reply #12 on:** March 23, 2013, 02:29:49 AM »

Glad you got some photo in that museum. I was there several years ago, and they were very strict about not taking any photos at all. I even tried to just hold the camera waist high without aiming it and taking whatever picture I could. They immediately saw what I was about to do and stopped me. Maybe things have changed since I was there. Anyway, that is one fantastic collection and well worth the trip just to see that one museum not to mention the rest of the town.

eddillon · « **Reply #13 on:** March 23, 2013, 02:41:05 AM »

Quote from: Jim Chambers on March 23, 2013, 02:29:49 AM

Glad you got some photo in that museum. I was there several years ago, and they were very strict about not taking any photos at all. I even tried to just hold the camera waist high without aiming it and taking whatever picture I could. They immediately saw what I was about to do and stopped me. Maybe things have changed since I was there. Anyway, that is one fantastic collection and well worth the trip just to see that one museum not to mention the rest of the town.

Jim,
The policy now is to sign a piece of paper, pay 3 Euros plus the admission and they give a little sticker for you to display. You have limitless photo access. No flash and no tripods.

Dan'l 1946 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 23, 2013, 04:51:17 AM »

Thanks again, Ed. According to a friend, Kuchenreiter is pronounced as cook-en-roy-ter . Is that correct?
Dan

PPatch · « **Reply #15 on:** March 23, 2013, 05:02:43 AM »

Just WOW

Thank you sir, wonderful to see.

dave

eddillon · « **Reply #16 on:** March 23, 2013, 05:15:36 AM »

Yes. Sometimes, the spelling is seen as Kuchenreuter. Pronounce it kuch as in kook,en, royter as in Reuters news service.

Feltwad · « **Reply #17 on:** March 23, 2013, 05:52:13 PM »

To those I say that the British were influenced by German makers. I hope that this post sparks friendly debate.
Eddillon
Sorry but I do not agree English sporting gunmaking has always been the best this even applies today, but then I am a patriot.
Feltwad

eddillon · « **Reply #18 on:** March 23, 2013, 11:52:24 PM »

Quote from: Feltwad on March 23, 2013, 05:52:13 PM

To those I say that the British were influenced by German makers. I hope that this post sparks friendly debate.
Eddillon
Sorry but I do not agree English sporting gunmaking has always been the best this even applies today, but then I am a patriot.
Feltwad

Hi Feltwad, never mentioned quality of workmanship. The Brits were and are superb. The Germans were and are superb. The Brits more subtle in execution of the "art". The Germans a little "garish. I still say there is an influence in design.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #19 on:** March 24, 2013, 05:23:58 AM »

Going back to a staement by the late John Bivins,"No matter how finely crafted,'the German work will always have the "cloven hoof".
To me the Brits have always had the edge in fine craftsmanship but then I have seen some top makers names on guns that should be
considered less than the best.

Bob Roller

eddillon · « **Reply #20 on:** March 27, 2013, 02:32:30 AM »

Quote from: Bob Roller on March 24, 2013, 05:23:58 AM

Going back to a staement by the late John Bivins,"No matter how finely crafted,'the German work will always have the "cloven hoof".
To me the Brits have always had the edge in fine craftsmanship but then I have seen some top makers names on guns that should be
considered less than the best.

Bob Roller

Bob,
I was was a charter member of the "cloven hoof" school until I started visiting museums in Europe. I now am convinced the the Germans were masters of high-relief engraving. I guess if you don't like high-relief, then they are "cloven hooves". As to the modern Brit "Best" guns, your right. There is a lot of stuff that doesn't desrve the title.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #21 on:** March 27, 2013, 03:34:23 AM »

Ed,you're right,I dont like carving either raised or incised.
A little scroll engraving on a lock plate maybe but that's about
all the embellishment I want.
The Southern and plain as a fence post rifles have always been my favorites
in American muzzle loaders and the high quality target rifles of the American
Northeast along with the work of the best English shops get my attention in a
hurry.
I have made a number of percussion schuetzen locks over the years,mostly
for Helmut Mohr.Almost everything on/in his schuutzen rifles except the sights
are made here in the USA.I think these rifles are grotesque but that's just my opinion.

Bob Roller

eddillon · « **Reply #22 on:** March 27, 2013, 04:39:15 AM »

Quote from: Bob Roller on March 27, 2013, 03:34:23 AM

Ed,you're right,I dont like carving either raised or incised.
A little scroll engraving on a lock plate maybe but that's about
all the embellishment I want.
The Southern and plain as a fence post rifles have always been my favorites
in American muzzle loaders and the high quality target rifles of the American
Northeast along with the work of the best English shops get my attention in a
hurry.
I have made a number of percussion schuetzen locks over the years,mostly
for Helmut Mohr.Almost everything on/in his schuutzen rifles except the sights
are made here in the USA.I think these rifles are grotesque but that's just my opinion.

Opinions are like any anatomical part of the human body. Everybody has one. Thank God!!
Bob Roller

rich pierce · « **Reply #23 on:** March 27, 2013, 04:51:22 AM »

Quote from: eddillon on March 22, 2013, 10:20:10 PM

Does this carving around the comb look familiar to anyone?

tallbear · « **Reply #24 on:** March 27, 2013, 04:54:54 AM »

Musician rifle!!!! Love to see the other side

Mitch

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Author Topic: Visit to German museum (Read 12564 times)

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