Aqua Fortis... what am I doing wrong

[m. reaver]

I recently received a bottle of Ye Original AQUAFORTIS.  I've applied and heated (with heat gun) on several scraps of maple and I can't get it past the initial green color.
Does anyone have experience with this brand?  Is it possible that I'm not applying liberally enough?  I ask because I've read that it's a fairly diluted version and I'm no where near anything toned brown or red.

[E.vonAschwege]

If you're getting green then you've likely got the strength you need.  Are you using Wahkon Bay aquafortis (my bottle is titled "ye colonial")?  I've found it to be plenty strong unless they've changed the recipe lately What you're lacking I imagine is the heat.  You might be surprised at the heat required to get the stain to change.  Below is what the color difference should appear like.  Also note that on red maple I've found the brown color to still appear to have a greenish hue until it has some finish rubbed into it.  Best,
-Eric

[snowdragon]

With heat applied, the color should go from green to brown. If you apply too much heat, the wood will scorch. It doesn't sound like you've applied so much heat that you've scorched the wood yet, so I wonder if you've stopped short of turning the aqua from green to brown.

I suggest you apply the heat on your scraps until you can see the wood scorch. That way, if the color goes from green to burned, you will know that something is not quite right with the aqua fortis. If this is the case, you should get a different bottle of aqua.

My heat gun will eventually scorch the wood on LOW setting, but the color will change before it gets to that point. I think I mostly use Track of the Wolf brand, if that's what it's called. And come to think of it, I believe it's called Ye old Something. Had good results with it.  Good luck. Bill

[M Tornichio]

I have found that unless you let the aqua fortis dry completely, it won't kick over to brown. It starts turning brow slightly, then it will wick up from the wood pores and turn green immediately. I have since waited a full hour before applying heat. If this does not work, you may not have enough heat. I like the suggestion of applying heat till it scorches on scrap. You will learn the entire color spectrum that is possible with your specific solution.
Don't give up yet.
Marc

[billd]

You can put a coat of Tung or Linseed oil on first then heat if you want.  It will take more heat before scorching.  Don't try this with the synthetic finishes.  Also, do it outside, the smell is not wife compatible.

Bill 

[m. reaver]

I tried scorching a sample and it went from green to... scorched.  I tried letting the AF dry for 2 hours before applying heat and it turned only green as before.

The only brown I've gotten is when I dampen the AF treated maple.  It'll show a bit of brown until it dries out and turns back to green again.  Tried tung oil on another scrap and it turned brown and looks okay, just not the stain AF usually produces.

I'd like to learn how to use AF properly, but I don't seem to be getting anywhere with this stuff.  It's the Track brand and as Bill stated, he as well as others seem to have decent luck with it.

Plenty of others have figured out how to use AF so I'll keep trying.  My problem now is; if the clue bird doesn't $h!t on my head soon, I'll be out of maple scraps.

[oakridge]

I don't have an answer for you, but the last AF I bought came from TOW. When I applied it and let it dry for an hour or so, it had an ugly greenish cast. When I applied the heat gun it turned a beautiful reddish-brown. Very nice. I bought this AF a couple of years ago and don't know if the solution is the same now. I do know that for some reason hydrochloric acid is added to some of the AF solutions, but I don't know why.

[Old Bob]

I recently received a bottle of Ye Original AQUAFORTIS.  I've applied and heated (with heat gun) on several scraps of maple and I can't get it past the initial green color.
Does anyone have experience with this brand?  Is it possible that I'm not applying liberally enough?  I ask because I've read that it's a fairly diluted version and I'm no where near anything toned brown or red.

I've used a lot of Wahkon Bay AF and I've found that I get best results by wiping it on pretty heavy and only covering a section about a foot long or so at a time. Let soak for a couple of minutes and I heat with a small butane torch. I have used a propane torch and even an acetylene torch. With the open flame it is very easy to scorch the wood. But the fact is, it takes a lot of heat and I get pretty close to the wood, but I keep it moving and as soon as the wood browns I back off. I said earlier that I've used a cutting torch, but I don't recommend it (it was all I had at the time). A light butane or propane torch works well and are easier to control. You can't be afraid of scorching, the more heat the quicker and darker it'll be. If you do scorch a little you can give it a lick and a promise with fine sandpaper or steel wool, reapply and hit it again. If you don't want to risk it, Dangler's Golden Brown Stain gives a good finish similiar to that of Wahkon Bay and it doesn't require heating. You're best bet is to practice your torch/heatgun technique on a scrap piece and see how close you need to get and the amount of heat.

[Eric Krewson]

Here is a similar change to that shown above, heat gun for a heat source.

[Acer Saccharum]

Plane your maple scraps to expose fresh wood.

Try a different brand of AF.

It's just not that hard, so I suspect your batch may be kaphooie...

[m. reaver]

I think I've got it figured out now.  My main mistake was in trying to apply my heat too close to the maple.  After I let an AF treated scrap sit in the sun all day, I applied the heat from twice as far away (625F @ approx. 16 in) as I'd tried before.  Came out like the examples posted.

An interesting side note; After I applied water to the browned maple, I again dried it too rapidly with the heat gun and it turned back to green again.  I reapplied water and let it dry on its own and the brown tones came back out.  Any chemists on board to educate me on why that occurs?

Mr. Curran was correct when he stated "It's just not that hard".  However, I seem to gravitate towards turning even simplistic tasks into challenges.  If you wanna be dumb, you gotta be tough.

Thanks all for the help.

[E.vonAschwege]

Dried in the sun all day? ... only my boiled linseed oil varnish has to dry in the sun all day, aquafortis should be a piece of cake.  If you've got results that you're happy with, great, but I too am starting to wonder if you should order a different bottle.  I don't know who sells Wahkon Bay (is it available still?), but that stuff is plenty strong and I've even diluted it to get lighter results.  I let mine sit on the wood for maybe 10-15 minutes before hitting it with the heat gun.  Applying heat too close shouldn't prevent the stain from changing.  Best,
-Eric

I think I've got it figured out now.  My main mistake was in trying to apply my heat too close to the maple.  After I let an AF treated scrap sit in the sun all day, I applied the heat from twice as far away (625F @ approx. 16 in) as I'd tried before.  Came out like the examples posted.

[JDK]

...I don't know who sells Wahkon Bay (is it available still?), but that stuff is plenty strong and I've even diluted it to get lighter results......-Eric

Hey Eric,  Mike Lea of Columbus, OH is marketing Wahkon Bay now.  Dixon's had some last I was there, as does Stonewall Creek Outfitters and Muzzleloader Builders Supply.

As far as being too close to convert AF, I have been working with Ferric Nitrate mixed with denatured alcohol the last few days and have been converting it from just inches away with a Milwaukee heat gun turned about half way up.  Worked fine on a sugar maple stock and hickory ramrod.  Enjoy, J.D. 

[KentSmith]

Shouldn't have to wait.  Shouldn't have to scorch.  Do need to give the heat time to convert from ferric nitrate to ferric oxide. Only reason I wait much at all is the danger of putting heat on a wet stock and causing a check to open.  I usually apply a good coat, let it dry for about 5 min.  use the heat gun to go over and finish the drying but not trying to blush it if necessary.  Then start at one end, with the gun on high and constantly moving it in small circles to avoid concentrating the heat on one spot.  It takes a moment for the wood to heat enough to blush.  I gradually move up the stock.  In tricky areas like the cheek piece and lock panels I have to hit it a couple times to heat up the wood in crevices indirectly then come back again a few seconds later to blush the low lying areas to prevent scorching the sharp corners or raised carving.  After I finish the first coat I de-whisker and apply the second coat and repeat.  I usually put 3 coats on.  Never have a problem.

I make my own stain.  Have tried using nitric acid to make the ferric nitrate and have mixed ferric nitrate with distilled water.  both work fine and react to heat the same way.  The reason I apply several coats is after the first I always detect the faintest green hue in some areas of the stock particularly the flat areas.  After the second coat that goes away for me.  Others may vary..

I lay the stain on so I wet the wood well but I don't slop it all over.  I want enough on to soak in well and let it go deep but am too cheap to have it wasted by dripping all over the place which is kind of ironic since when you make this stuff up you usually get enough to last a lifetime.

Make sure you have whiskered the stock well before starting as the stain will raise the any whiskers still remaining.

[JDK]

Speaking of not having to wait before applying heat.....on the sugar maple I have been playing with I have observed that I get a different shades/hues of color when converted wet vs. left to completely dry.  I haven't played around enough to figure out the "whys" yet.

Applying household ammonia to neutralize, as Mitch Yates recommends, changed the color yet again.  Each resulting color was pleasing.....thankfully.  Curious.

Enjoy, J.D.

[Darrin McDonal]

Be sure to Let It Dry before you apply the heat and always heat thoroughly- meaning go back & forth over it 3-4 times to make sure it is evenly and completely heated. The heating will neutralize it , if you heated it completely. As always, try this on scrap wood first. Every stock will give you some differences.   
Darrin

[Old Bob]

...I don't know who sells Wahkon Bay (is it available still?), but that stuff is plenty strong and I've even diluted it to get lighter results......-Eric

Hey Eric,  Mike Lea of Columbus, OH is marketing Wahkon Bay now.  Dixon's had some last I was there, as does Stonewall Creek Outfitters and Muzzleloader Builders Supply.

As far as being too close to convert AF, I have been working with Ferric Nitrate mixed with denatured alcohol the last few days and have been converting it from just inches away with a Milwaukee heat gun turned about half way up.  Worked fine on a sugar maple stock and hickory ramrod.  Enjoy, J.D. 

Mike owns the brand now.

[m. reaver]

You're correct in stating that I shouldn't need to leave the scraps in the sun.  I tried it because I'd read that a few builders allegedly place AF treated stocks in the sun and let them be until they're satisfied with the resulting color.  The Penn Dutch side of me necessitated that I fuss with my samples a bit to check out the results.

All I really needed to do was allow the wood enough time to soak up the heat from the heat gun in order to produce the desired reaction.

I enjoyed putting the board members advice into practice and either way, I've learned a few things so it was time well spent.