Hawken stock

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I'd go out on a limb here and say that the Hawken boys did it both ways.  I've seen very late Hawken rifles or at least images of them,, where the varnish has worn and the maple shows through, but on most if not all of the rifles in Gordon's great book, the wood seems to be worn evenly, as if it were stained prior to finish applied.  Even rifles with considerable wear and repair seem to have been stained first - then oiled.
From my experience, Ferric Nitrate stains very well and is difficult to remove.  Coloured varnish is the opposite.

[Bob Roller]

Who or where is Tiger Hunt Stocks??

Bob Roller

[redheart]

Bob,

It's                      Tiger Hunt
             Curly Maple Gunstock Blanks
                      & Precarves
                     P. O. Box 379
                    Beaverdale, PA 15921
                    Phone # 814-472-5161
                   www.gunstockwood.com

This info came to me from Hawken Guru Mtn Meek!
Best regards,

Redheart
          

[willyr]

One thing to keep in mind. It doesn't matter whose precarve you use, it's going to be cut to use that horrible cast entry pipe. using that piece of s**t pipe will add 1/8 inch to the depth of the forestock. doesn't sound like much, but it destroys the way the forestock is supposed to look.

[redheart]

Bill,

Are you really telling me now that I have another problem to work out!
Thanks to you now I'm seriously contemplating suicide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mtn Meek]

One thing to keep in mind. It doesn't matter whose precarve you use, it's going to be cut to use that horrible cast entry pipe. using that piece of s**t pipe will add 1/8 inch to the depth of the forestock. doesn't sound like much, but it destroys the way the forestock is supposed to look.

I believe Bill is talking about this entry pipe.  Notice the thickness of the skirt.  This is what TOTW recommends for their Bridger pattern stock.  This stock is fully inlet for all the parts.




If you start with a pre-carve that only has the barrel channel cut and ramrod hole drilled, no inlets, you can use something like this.


Or you can make your own out of sheet metal.

[redheart]

Mtn. Meek,

I 'd like to think that someone offers this entry pipe already made.
Doesn't Ted Cash offer one?

[rsells]

Track did sell an entry thimble similar to the one Art Russel sold  with his Hawken Shop kit.  You can look at the current Hawken Shop owner's (in Washington state) catalogue and see what it looks like.  I used a couple of these when building rifles using Track's Bridger stock.  I looked at their on line catalogue and it is not showing now.  I was cleaning the entry thimbles I have left in the shop today, and I have eleven.  They are nearly identical even though I have some Russel, Ozark Mountain Arms, and Track's parts. However, the photographs I have of the Carson rifle entry pipe is slightly different.  You can make one from scratch or purchase a plain iron sheet metal thimble and file it to match the original.  If you like the one Art sold, I will sell you one of mine to do your project.
                                                                                                       Roger

[Herb]

Bill is correct about that entry pipe, it is the wrong one.  The correct one is Track's #RP-Hawk-TE-7-I.  Here is a photo of that one on the Bridger rifle.

And then to be correct to the Jim Bridger Hawken, drill it out to .500 ID.  Then use .500 ID rod pipes, and I don't know where you get those.  I had mine turned on a lathe.  The ram rod is .500, slightly reduced to go into the stock, probably .470.  I just made mine .500, and a .500 steel rod tip goes into my stock.  The rod tip I just got from Track is about .020 thick and I expected to have to reduce it in diameter, so I soldered an .020 steel liner inside it.

[Dphariss]

Here is another angle of the Bridger entry pipe.


Dan

[Mtn Meek]

Roger,

Is this not similar to Ressel's entry pipe?  It is TOTW part number RP-HAWK-T-E-7-I



It is also similar to the one that came with my Don Stith J & S Hawken kit.  Don Stith can correct me, but I'm of the impression that he uses several of Ressel's castings such as butt plates and trigger guards as well as this entry thimble.


Redheart, yes, TOTW and others sell Ted Cash sheet iron pipes.  The part number is RP-TC-RE-7-I.  I didn't include a picture of one because the one on their website is brass and I didn't want to confuse the issue.

Phil

[Don Stith]

Phil
That entry thimble is a copy of Ressels. I had Pete Allan make a mold to copy Arts. It is a little larger than I would prefer but is stylistically correct for a late rifle.  Arts was made from one on a rifle he owned as were all of his castings. I won't use the other cast thimbles shown in your posting. I make mine on the lathe.
  All his parts were not from the same rifle, so there is a little mismatch in some cases.
 Unfortunately I did not think I could afford the molds at the time and let Pete sell them to whoever, which included Track. That is how they got  my J&S trigger guard too. Not sure how they got  copies of some of my other castings, since I own those molds and they are not at Petes. Some of their buttplate castings even have my STL stamp inside but are a mold shrink down sized.
 I am lucky to own an origial that is almost identical to the Carson in time period and dimension. That served as the basis for my Carson butt plate.
 I recommend tapering the ramrod between a 16th to an 8th inside the forearm
 The few original rods I have examined were tapered and it sure beats having one stick in the stock. Where thimbles permit, I'll taper the entire length. It is not unusual for originals to have the thimbles taper in size as well.
For the guys that think a straight barrel of any size is close enough, I don't know why we worry about all these other details. Some of us are just more anal, I guess. Col. Wheland told me he had never seen a Hawken with anything but a straight barrel. We must have been looking at different collections or he did not own calipers.

[rsells]

Mtn Meek,
The photo you posted is like the Russel thimble.  I have used the one from Track, and the ID is slightly larger than the Russel part or the parts I got from the Ozark Mountain design.  I have all three mixed up in my bin, and can't tell the difference by sight, but the Track part has a slightly larger ID for whatever reason.  I checked Track's on line catalog last night and they didn't show the part I used now, but they may still have some in stock.  I pass on my catalogs to other folks when I get a new one and didn't have  a reference to the part number I used earlier.
                                                                                                Roger

[Mtn Meek]

Thanks for that clarification and additional info, Don.

I had bought a few of Art Ressel's old Hawken Shop parts from a fellow a couple years ago.





Then last year, I bought a butt plate on eBay.  When I compared it to the butt plate of Ressel's, the two were almost identical, but the second one looked like a recast and had "STL 3" on the inside.







I didn't know what the STL stood for but thought it might have been yours, Don.  I have never seen one like it listed for sale by any of the muzzleloader suppliers.