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| | |-+  Pedersoli Frontier flintlock geometry question
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Author Topic: Pedersoli Frontier flintlock geometry question  (Read 2122 times)
HALSEM
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« on: June 22, 2013, 02:55:21 PM »

I just bought a Pedersoli Blueridge (Frontier) 45cal flintlock from Cabelas.
This is my first flintlock but to my untrained eye the flint cock and hammer are not in alignment.  The hammer face has a step out which allows it to cover the pan.  The cock seems too close to the body of the gun.  In fact I actually scraped the barrel with the flint so I had to nip some flint away to avoid this.
I am in contact with Cabelas under the impression that this is a fault.
What does the forum think?  Looking at hammer/frizzen scrapes from the flint (dry-firing) it scrapes about two thirds across the face and starting about half way down.

Matt
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D. Taylor Sapergia
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« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2013, 12:25:00 AM »

Welcome to this site Matt...you'll get answers to your question here.  but I'd like to see a picture of the lock in the stock from several angles before I cast an opinion...not familiar with the rifle.
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D. Taylor Sapergia
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Standing Bear
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« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2013, 02:09:11 PM »

Yesterday I replaced the flint  and checked the alignment with the frizzen.  Noted the flint would strike the barrel flat, loosened the jaw and relocated the flint away from the barrel enough to clear.  

There was a slight amount of flint outward of the frizzen but then knapped flints are not known for precise and consistent measurements.

Lock geometry can be slightly altered by how the flint is mounted - bevel up or down, flint further out or into the jaws.  Experimentation is part of the alure for me and others.  That said some lock geometry is indeed too far out to produce desired results.

Most locks with a well hardened frizzen (preferably thru hardened and not case hardened) and a strong main spring will function.  Some require refinements on the pan to catch all or even one spark,  size of the touch hole, location of priming powder all come into play and some rifles are just more finicky than others.

Start with using real BP in both the main charge and pan, properly fit a sharp flint, wear eye protection.  

If you are still having problems, hook up with an experienced flint shooter or wear eye protectio.  If still on your own, do not load or prime the rifle, set it up where you can be eye level with the lock and cycle the lock in the dark or very dim surroundings to see what is happening.  Such as few or no sparks, sparks hitting in front of the pan etc.  If that seems to be working OK, then prime only and see what is happening.

Good luck and keep us informed.
TC
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HALSEM
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« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2013, 05:53:50 PM »

I have some pics of the lock off the gun.  How can I post pics to this thread?
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PPatch
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« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2013, 07:00:00 PM »

HALSEM; look in the Tutorials section for information on how to include photographs in your post.

dave
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« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2013, 07:29:52 PM »

I hesitate to say anything, but that lock is truly one of the crappiest ones on the market.  It is not a defect, it's a bad design, which is rare for Pedersoli.  Working at peak efficiently, you'll be lucky if it fires twice out of 5 or 6 tries.  Do yourself a favor and replace it with an RPL lock.
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A dedicated person with just a pocketknife can accomplish more than a lazy person with an entire toolbox.
Leatherbark
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« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2013, 07:43:32 PM »

That lock uses a 7/8ths inch size flint.  I shot one of those for several years.  Persons always commented on how fast it shot.  As long as the flint scrapes the frizzen there shouldn't be no problem. I though mine was square with the frizzen so we definitely need a picture. By the way use 3 f black powder as 2 f will bridge in the communication hole of the patent breech.  Drill out your touch hole liner to at least 1/16 inch and cone the outside a little.  You can drill out the rear of the liner on that gun also as it is pretty thick.

Bob
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HALSEM
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« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2013, 10:56:43 PM »

OK, here is a poor photo from my phone of the lock taken directly above.
Hopefully you can see that the cock and the hammer plate don't appear to be in alignment.



Matt
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HALSEM
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« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2013, 08:54:03 AM »

Maybe a dumb question but I assume I remove the touch hole liner before drilling it out?
Does it simply unscrew?  Any special gotcha's I need to know beforehand?

Also, I forgot to mention that this lock throws a nice shower of sparks as is with English flints.  Haven't obviously fired enough to know whether it will hold up or eat the flints yet though.

Matt
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smallpatch
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« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2013, 03:06:03 PM »

It appears to me that your flint is WAY too big.  Check owner's manual and start with the right sized flint.  A little bit of misalignment can be taken care of with careful adjustment of the flint in the jaws.

Good luck.
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Dane
JCKelly
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« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2013, 11:36:40 AM »

If the lock sparks I'd stay with it.

You might be cautious about buying a replacement lock. They do not all fit, as the ad says they do.
Experience Speaketh.
Pedersoli's lock has about the same outline as does the Siler lock, but Ped's is much thinner. Bolster thickness, also mainspring depth affects whether or not your "RPL" actually fits. 
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crawdad
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« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2013, 10:20:14 AM »

Matt, with that sized flint in the jaws can you fully close the frizzen down over the pan? That picture isn't all that good and we could use a differant look. 
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HALSEM
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« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2013, 11:04:14 PM »

This is a 7/8" flint which is stated by both Pedersoli and Track of the Wolf (which is where I got the flints).
I will take some better quality pictures in the next day or so and post them.

Thanks for all the input so far.

Matt
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HALSEM
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« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2013, 05:31:43 PM »

I just removed the vent hole liner and it is drilled out to 1/16 and coned both outside and inside already.

On the lock I have looked at some other Frontier rifles and they seem to have the same geometry.
There is a youtube video with this rifle and I contacted the poster and he confirmed that his lock has the same geometry as mine.
I have also e-mailed Pedersoli but I am waiting for a reply.

Matt
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Leatherbark
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« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2013, 08:48:21 PM »

Halsam

Make sure you put some anti-seize or grease on those threads of that liner.  It will seize up to high H.E. double toothpicks after a few firing sessions. Position that flint so it hits the frizzen square but does not hit your barrel.  Use the 3 f black and fire away.

Good Luck

Bob
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HALSEM
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« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2013, 07:25:01 AM »

What do you suggest as an anti-seize agent?
I use Ballistol on my cap and ball nipples, would that work?
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Old Ford2
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« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2013, 09:21:45 AM »

At your local auto supply store, you will find products like " No-Seize" or "Anti-Seize" one can will last a lifetime.
Fred
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« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2013, 11:28:39 AM »

Quote
What do you suggest as an anti-seize agent?
Do NOT use one of the aluminum based products.  Find one that is copper based.  The long range guys use this and one of them gave me a small vial of it.  I used bore butter as an anti-seize, fired one relay, and my nipple was almost permanently seized.  I broke 2 nipple wrenches trying to remove it.  Finally took it to the gunsmith's shack and they had to chuck the end of a nipple wrench in the drill press and remove it that way.  It squealed all the way out and I was lucky it didn't take the threads with it.  Have not had a problem since.
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hanshi
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« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2013, 11:51:45 AM »

I've had good service using "Gorilla" anti seize in the small tube.  Also have a tube of "breech plug" anti seize but can't remember the maker, off hand.
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SCLoyalist
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« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2013, 01:05:42 PM »

Track of the Wolf sells a 3/4 oz tube of Birchwood Casey Choke tube lube that they say works for nipples and flash hole liners.   I'd expect you could find the same product in a local sporting goods store.
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HALSEM
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« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2013, 06:20:27 PM »

I heard back from Pedersoli today.
They said "it is normal that the frizzen is out of center with the hammer. What counts is that the flint is in axis with the pan"

Since originally posting this thread I have been shooting the rifle and it fires well and quickly so I will leave it as is and keep the flint sharp.
Thanks again for everyone's input.

Matt
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alsask
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« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2013, 09:35:25 PM »

 I use Copper Coat anti-sieze on my touch hole liners.  Never had a problem.  A big bottle costs about $8 dollars.  I use the same stuff on  the spark plug threads on my planes. Works good.
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