Author Topic: Please claify...Goex chart for round ball .50 cal recommends 2F...  (Read 8331 times)

1911tex

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http://goexpowder.com/images/LoadCharts/RB-Rifle-Musket.pdf

I thought 3F was correct (70gr. load) for flintlock?

roundball

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Re: Please claify...Goex chart for round ball .50 cal recommends 2F...
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2013, 11:33:30 PM »
I'm of the opinion that due to any possibility of liability concerns, most manufacturers "load suggestions" are always lower than they need to be.
But T/C Load Data charts have been published for decades and stood the test of time...are closer to reality but even they have some safety margin built in I'm sure.
Speaking for myself I've always used 50-70grns Goex 3F as plinking charges for weekend fun shooting...and 90-120grns for big game loads.

Offline SCLoyalist

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Re: Please claify...Goex chart for round ball .50 cal recommends 2F...
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2013, 11:47:39 PM »
For years I heard the rule was 2F for calibers .50 and above, 3F for smaller bores.   These days many folks use 3F in everything, but reduce the load; i.e. instead of 70 gr 2F shoot 60 gr of 3F, and get pretty much the same muzzle velocity (although perhaps a sharper recoil).    The tables you see are usually titled "Preferred Loads" or "Recommended Loads", so they're not absolute.   Just be aware that if you go beyond the recommendation, exercise caution and be alert for any signs you're overstressing things.   

The situation was summarized nicely in a movie a few years ago:
"And thirdly, the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules. Welcome aboard the Black Pearl."     YAaargh.


Offline moleeyes36

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Re: Please claify...Goex chart for round ball .50 cal recommends 2F...
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2013, 12:09:23 AM »
Yes, I think most folks do use 3fg in the majority of guns now days as I do.  I like the fact that you get less fouling with 3fg than you do with 2fg.  One of things to check is how does it impact accuracy.  I have one smooth bore that shoots round ball and shot better with 2fg than it does with 3fg.  I also seem to get better patterns with my shotguns using 2fg.  Perhaps the "hotter" burning 3fg may be blowing the patters a bit, but that's just a guess.  Experiment a little to see which granulation your guns seem to shoot best and let that be your guide.
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necchi

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Re: Please claify...Goex chart for round ball .50 cal recommends 2F...
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2013, 03:23:08 AM »
http://goexpowder.com/images/LoadCharts/RB-Rifle-Musket.pdf

I thought 3F was correct (70gr. load) for flintlock?
Uhm? Yes, where is the problem?

is the link wrong or something??

Offline Standing Bear

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Re: Please claify...Goex chart for round ball .50 cal recommends 2F...
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2013, 05:27:06 AM »
Looks right to me. 90 gr Goex FFg in a .50 flintlock for hunting and 100 yard targets.
Nothing is hard if you have the right equipment and know how to use it.  OR have friends who have both.

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Offline Ezra

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Re: Please claify...Goex chart for round ball .50 cal recommends 2F...
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2013, 08:28:51 PM »
I use 90 grains of 3fff in my .58.  For me, it's a maximum load.

Ez
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Mike R

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Re: Please claify...Goex chart for round ball .50 cal recommends 2F...
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2013, 04:20:46 PM »
In the really old days, rifle powder was close to ffg of today.  But modern steel barrels in good shape can handle fffg in most calibers--personally I have found that some rifles LIKE ffg better.  I use fffg in all calibers up through .54--except one of my .54s [I have two] likes ffg better.  I use ffg in my .62 smoothies and used to use it in a .58 rifle [I sold it].   

Offline Leatherbelly

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Re: Please claify...Goex chart for round ball .50 cal recommends 2F...
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2013, 11:09:15 PM »
 2f for rifles,3f for pistols...simple,lol!
I'm a Mountain Man and I like mountain women.

Offline Bull Shannon

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Re: Please claify...Goex chart for round ball .50 cal recommends 2F...
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2013, 11:13:25 PM »
It really depends on the accuracy you get out of your rifle and is not set in stone.  I've tried both 3f Goex and Jack's battle powder in my .54 and the results never on par with when 2f was used.  My .50 however, seems to get the best accuracy using 3f.  I suggest you try both and see for yourself.

Offline aka california eddillon

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Re: Please claify...Goex chart for round ball .50 cal recommends 2F...
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2013, 12:54:35 AM »
Here is a GOEX FFFG and FFG velocity comparison as calculated using the QuickLOAD software Black Powder Estimator.  The estimator is the result of research done by Dr. Don Miller who was a Lawrence Livermore Lab scientist.  Don passed a couple of years ago.  He had put a lot of effort into the estimator.  He was a passionate researcher and black powder shooter.





When all other inputs are the same. except the granulation, notice the difference in velocity.  I arbitrarily used a charge of 100 gr just for the sake of discussion.  Difference in velocity means there is a corresponding difference in pressure.  Heed.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 01:04:14 AM by eddillon »
In memory of Capt. Frederick H. Dillon, Commander 235th Ordnance Bomb Disposal Company.  MIA October 10, 1943.  His brother, Private Daniel B. Dillon, 85th Division, KIA northern Italy September 23, 1944.

1911tex

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Re: Please claify...Goex chart for round ball .50 cal recommends 2F...
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2013, 03:31:20 PM »
eddillon:  The Dr. Don Miller Estimator.......is it possible for others to utilize this chart?  Best I have seen !
Thanks........

Offline aka california eddillon

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Re: Please claify...Goex chart for round ball .50 cal recommends 2F...
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2013, 07:32:33 PM »
Hi 1911,
My favorite handgun :D  The black powder estimator is part of a software program I sell.  It is called QuickLOAD/QuickTARGET.  It predicts pressure and velocity for 1200 cartridges, 2500 bullets and over 250 powders.  The estmator is just one of its many features.  Go to this link:
www.neconos.com/details3.htm
In memory of Capt. Frederick H. Dillon, Commander 235th Ordnance Bomb Disposal Company.  MIA October 10, 1943.  His brother, Private Daniel B. Dillon, 85th Division, KIA northern Italy September 23, 1944.

Offline hanshi

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Re: Please claify...Goex chart for round ball .50 cal recommends 2F...
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2013, 12:04:31 AM »
With every deer I ever killed with 4 different .50s, I used 100 grains of Goex 3F.  Performance was always admirable.
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Offline Leatherbelly

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Re: Please claify...Goex chart for round ball .50 cal recommends 2F...
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2013, 08:15:51 AM »
   I believe an accurate load can be found with either of the given granulations. Even my lighter 40 and 50 calibers enjoy 2f Goex. I use it cause I got lots of it,lol.All my rifles and smoothbore shoot 2f G.which is really nice. Only one kind of powder for all.Works for me.
I'm a Mountain Man and I like mountain women.

doug.brayman

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Re: Please claify...Goex chart for round ball .50 cal recommends 2F...
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2013, 09:36:51 PM »
I have always used Goex 3F in both my 45 and 54. Always works great.

Ron T.

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Re: Please claify...Goex chart for round ball .50 cal recommends 2F...
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2013, 05:53:07 AM »
I use 47 grains of Swiss FFFg in my .50 caliber Long rifle for targets, 70 grains of FFFg Swiss for deer hunting.  I keep my shot at no greater than 75 yards or less... prefer less.

When just "plinking" or target shooting for fun, I use 47 grains of Goex FFFg.  At 25 yards, both Swiss and Goex shoot to the same point-of-aim.


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Dogshirt

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Re: Please claify...Goex chart for round ball .50 cal recommends 2F...
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2013, 06:28:11 AM »
60 grns of Goex 2f for targets, 100 grns same for hunting. 150-200 yards no sweat. My .54 GPR refuses to digest 3f.

doug.brayman

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Re: Please claify...Goex chart for round ball .50 cal recommends 2F...
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2013, 01:34:51 PM »
60 grns of Goex 2f for targets, 100 grns same for hunting. 150-200 yards no sweat. My .54 GPR refuses to digest 3f.
3f is all I have ever used in my 54 GPR.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Please claify...Goex chart for round ball .50 cal recommends 2F...
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2013, 04:23:07 AM »
I have accuracy loads in both .40 and .45 for both granulations so I can use whatever powder I want, just use the appropriate measure.

None of my rifles have a separate accuracy load and hunting load when using an oil based lube.  The accuracy load for a given rifle of mine, IS my hunting load.   
Daryl

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zimmerstutzen

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Re: Please claify...Goex chart for round ball .50 cal recommends 2F...
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2013, 03:35:49 PM »
All this talk ignores barrel wall thickness.

I have a 7/8 atf 50 cal barrel and in the 1970's there were some 13/16 atf 50 cal barrel guns.
These guns are still out there and a bubba hunts load of 3f of swiss is  a trip to the er or morgue.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 06:58:30 PM by zimmerstutzen »