Author Topic: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?  (Read 33465 times)

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #50 on: August 15, 2013, 09:18:19 PM »
 Not at all, cap guns  had to wait for the transportation network to get finished, before the majority of the population would buy in. Flintlock trade guns were still on the shelves in Canada, and Alaska, in the eighteen eighties, because the network that delivered the caps, wasn't reliable. The metallic cartridge caught on a lot faster than the percussion cap, because it could use the delivery system that eventually made the percussion cap popular.

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Dogshirt

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #51 on: August 16, 2013, 03:28:21 AM »
Flintlocks were still on the shelves in the North because there was NO OTHER MARKET! The cap system was deliberately
kept from the Northern market because they DIDN"T KNOW ANY BETTER! Speaking of doing research, try reading The Beaver. HBC deliberately sold flintlocks in the North BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE WANTED THEM!

Offline k varga

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #52 on: August 16, 2013, 03:45:24 AM »
just ordered 6000 today from powder inc 400.00 shipped, no problem

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #53 on: August 16, 2013, 03:56:54 PM »
The simpler a system is, the more popular it will eventually become.  Why ?   Less training required.
It is the dumbing down of everything.    I know some folks who have never even cleaned their gun.
I depend on my flintlock , but I I started with a high quality lock, and then took the time and practice to learn how to use it. It is now second nature for me. 

1911tex

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #54 on: August 17, 2013, 09:14:31 PM »
taken in good friendship.........

Offline sse

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #55 on: September 04, 2013, 11:45:29 PM »
There are places where you can still buy a tin of 100 caps for 5 bucks, + sales tax, about as good as you will find.

Regarding reliability, a disclosure:  I don't own a flintlock.  I'd like to for all the reasons mentioned.  My first one will likely be a trade gun. 

Anyway, I'm afraid there are a lot of folks who shoot flinters, who really don't know how to get them to shoot several shots in succession, without a misfire.  I recently worked a walk-thru keeping score.  Most of the guys (and gals) had flinters.  Many of them had misfires, some more than two, which disqualified them for that stand.  I've never had such problems getting the capper to go off.  For you folks with flinters who really stay on top of these things, I think you're in a minority.

Dogshirt

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #56 on: September 05, 2013, 04:16:35 AM »
There are places where you can still buy a tin of 100 caps for 5 bucks, + sales tax, about as good as you will find.

Regarding reliability, a disclosure:  I don't own a flintlock.  I'd like to for all the reasons mentioned.  My first one will likely be a trade gun. 

Anyway, I'm afraid there are a lot of folks who shoot flinters, who really don't know how to get them to shoot several shots in succession, without a misfire.  I recently worked a walk-thru keeping score.  Most of the guys (and gals) had flinters.  Many of them had misfires, some more than two, which disqualified them for that stand.  I've never had such problems getting the capper to go off.  For you folks with flinters who really stay on top of these things, I think you're in a minority.

This is what I see more often than not.

Offline LH

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #57 on: September 05, 2013, 07:19:04 PM »
Quote
I'm afraid there are a lot of folks who shoot flinters, who really don't know how to get them to shoot several shots in succession, without a misfire.

Aint no doubt about that.  Seems like most flintlock owners never progress past the beginners stage as far as operating their guns go.  A lot of flint owners I've talked to over the years just think misfires are a constant with flintlocks. It aint got to be that way,  but some interest in the mechanism is required.  Desire for that specific knowledge is the key.  If you "want" it bad enough,  you'll hunt up the answers and work at operating and building a reliable gun.  If a man is really "casual" about it,  he will accept performance at the level of "it might go off when I pull the trigger".   Flintlocks have always fascinated me,  but there's probably something wrong with me too.   :)

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #58 on: September 05, 2013, 11:39:58 PM »
I just bought 2000 at the BC Rendezvous last week.  The Leppercon had at least ten thousand on hand.  $70/1000.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #59 on: September 06, 2013, 01:24:37 AM »
I have a percussion under hammer target rifle which I used to shoot all the time. It is an absolute tack driver, and I still like to take it to the range once in a while.  When I went to a flint lock , I figured that the only way to really learn how to use it , was to start with a quality lock [ Chambers ]  and to commit to using it for all my target shooting and hunting . I did that for over two years, and learned a lot.   If I get a " klasch " or flash in the pan, it is because i didn't do what I know should be done :- ]      In humid weather, wipe the bottom of the flint after a few shots, wipe the pan cover [ bottom of the frizzen ]  wipe out the pan , make sure the flint is tight, and sharp.  Check the touch hole to see it's open. I now do these things without thinking and am confident enough  in my gun to hunt and depend on it for all kinds of game.   Yes, a percussion is easier to use, but percussion guns have their own set of peculiarities.  and can be unreliable at times if you do not tend to their wants.

Offline k varga

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #60 on: September 06, 2013, 02:34:44 AM »
i understand the original question WAS when caps will be able to be GOT.
  POWDER INC TOLD ME THAT cci WOULD NOT BE MAKING ANY TILL 2014 


Offline sse

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #61 on: September 06, 2013, 04:32:48 PM »
 Yes, a percussion is easier to use, but percussion guns have their own set of peculiarities.  and can be unreliable at times if you do not tend to their wants.
Very true...

Also, I saw a lot of shooters doing the very things you mentioned.

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #62 on: September 06, 2013, 06:32:14 PM »
Back to the original question- Caps, like all components , are manufactured in a run , so that the set up etc is worth while.  CCI does the same type of thing with their rim fire ammo [ .17 MHR etc ]   When they get to it, they'll make enough for years and years  ;D  Mean while, there are shops with enough on hand here, so I'd shop around. I have no trouble coming up with a thousand from our local shop.

Offline stuart cee dub

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #63 on: September 06, 2013, 10:49:40 PM »
One of my shooting buddies works at Federal cartridge  Mpls plant .
His comment a few months ago was ''buy caps now'' .He synopsized the situation as follows

CCI part of the same group as Federal and makes percussion caps on the same production line as centerfire primers.
Federal gets their centerfire primers from CCI and is backordered years .
Unprecedented buying of all kinds of centerfire ammo has only made things worse.

Sadly the caps black powder shooters are not nearly as profitable as fully loaded centerfire ammunition is to the ammo manufacturers.

So as soon as the get more caught up on centerfire primers the answer ...probably no time soon .There were complaints at the territorial shoot last July as many shooters had not kept a sufficient supply of caps and were worried .
I have seen some RWS on the shelves .Great caps .
 
In the mean time I have set aside all my percussion gun projects and started work on a M Fordney style flintlock.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 12:02:46 AM by stuart cee dub »

Offline ottawa

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #64 on: September 08, 2013, 04:12:05 PM »
just bought #11 wichester mag at wally world yesterday $7.95 per tin
I'm not strange i just like building stuff

kb2112

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #65 on: November 18, 2013, 04:22:35 PM »
Here in NY, what is available is ridiculously priced.  Now that big game season has arrived, its $20 per 100, if they have them!!

Most shops dont have them.  Im down to only a tin or two for hunting.  If anyone can point me in the direction of #11's, that would be great.

This is really frustrating, as Im cutting back on my range time to conserve them for hunting.

Thanks

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #66 on: November 18, 2013, 06:41:26 PM »
If flintlocks were so great, why did they give way to cap locks and eventually center fire?
Maybe not a reasonable argument but one thing for sure flintlocks are way more fun! ;D

I shoot everything and throughly enjoy shooting my flintlocks but when the rubber meets the road caps win. ::)

Everything has its pluses and minuses. One must remember that the flintlock never went out of use in America. I think it was Cline who once bought an original rifle from an old man he had heard had one and when he arrived the man was preparing to load it to go Squirrel hunting. The same can be said of percussion. But its only been in use since the 1820s-30s. The caplock was a revelation to wing shooters in England due to lock time but the FL held on longer in rifles according to George. There were people who went to CA in the 1840s with a flintlock rifle because percussions were not really trusted. In the early 1830s the American Fur Company SPECIFICALLY ordered flintlocks from Henry stating the percussion would not do.
Moderns, especially people who have never had much contact with GOOD flintlocks seem to think that the flintlock was immediately thrown on the trash heap about 1830 because "percussion is better". But we need to remember that OUR percussion system is not THEIR system. Horridly corrosive caps, inconsistent caps. Poor nipple design, blown barrels of gun converted to percussion from flint. No it was not "better" in all respects.

Here is the deal. Percussion guns have a lot of hidden passages. They don't do well with massive holes in the nipple, accuracy wise, and they are prone to problems. Wiping between shots is more likely to cause a misfire with a percussion than a flint since the flint has a simpler flash channel.
With a flintlock if the vent is clear and the flint sharp and primed PROPERLY it will fire. The problem is generally with the operator if a flintlock misses fire or flashes.

And YES in some places its possible to pick up "rocks" off the ground that will work. I have done it. In my area its Agate generally. Now if in the west and you find even one it will keep you fed for a long time weeks maybe. If the person is low on flints and REALLY looked for something he will find a few more.  Shoot a buffalo jerk the meat and it will run one man for quite some time. I picked up 2-3, one lock ready as it came from the ground, walking 1/2 mile back to my truck one day.
I have a friend with a percussion rifle I built some years back. In matches he wipes every shot and has to pop a cap before loading. This rifle has a good breech and I taper reamed the flash channel to almost the nipple seat to assure it would not have problems. It does. Why? I have no idea unless its something the breech   maker did that I missed.
Why do flintlocks fail to fire? Poor design (modern usually but some "vintage" locks are $#@* too), poorly hardened/wrong steel alloy frizzens, not knowing how to run a flintlock, having wet fouling in the pan and/or vent. Believing that a little priming is enough. Letting the flint get dull, one of my failings at matches. There is a long list.
Caplocks with poorly aligned hammers, poor nipple design, poorly laid out flash channels. There is a list here as well. Not to mention that the percussion system is more prone to accidental discharges after the cap is removed to make it "safe". Its better to leave the cap on.
A good flintlock gives little or nothing in reliability to the percussion. But the percussion is easier to shoot, for most people. If properly made and the caps are right its a little more reliable in the wet unless the FL shooter has a cover. Many percussion shooters get into trouble by thinking it does not need to be covered in wet weather.
Yeah I have run around the mountains guiding hunters on pretty wet 10 day go arounds and had no problems. Good lock, good management FL works. I have difficulty building percussion guns. I just don't like them. Some bad experiences years ago that were worse than a misfire and a few others related by friends and others.

As I have likely posted before. As late as the 1840s experienced western hunters were still telling people that the percussion was not reliable.
People need to shoot what they like.  But coming to a site inhabited with flintlock shooters, many or whom are well experienced and KNOW how to make the "run" well and have done so for decades and spout off about people having trouble with them.  I have seen people REPEATEDLY jam my absolutely reliable 1911 Colt because they did not know how to shoot it properly. They limp wristed the pistol which causes it not to cycle properly.
Buy a Wall Mart FL, put 1-2 gr of priming in the pan and it will start to flash in the pan if not initially in a few shots. Buy a recreation of a Manton FL put it into a properly designed and assembled gun and use the proper level of prime, a good flint and its going to fire. Same for a Chambers Siler etc.
Cheap flintlocks were junk in 1770, in 1830 and they are junk now. One of the American Fur Company's instructions to Henry was to take great care in selecting the locks.

Dan
No, sir, I don't give 'em $#*!, I just tell the truth and they think it's $#*!. Harry S Truman

Offline SCLoyalist

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #67 on: November 18, 2013, 07:49:40 PM »
KB2112:   If there's a Basspro near you, check with them.   A friend from TN who's a Basspro employee said his store got them in just in the nick of time for hunting season, so maybe BassPro NY is seeing similar deliveries.   Good luck.  SCL

Offline Candle Snuffer

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #68 on: November 18, 2013, 10:15:13 PM »
I haven't seen any caps available for some time.  About two years ago I started shooting my flintlocks more then my cap locks, and with the cap shortage, I've even thought about converting several of my cap lock rifles to flint, but I haven't as yet since I have a couple flintlock rifles I like shooting a lot with.

With the above said,,, down the road if the cap situation does not improve, or if caps sky-rocket when they do come available, I'll just stick with my flintlocks and then reconsider converting the cap locks to flint.

Really, as I understand it, hardly anything at all is available these days (shootin' wise).  Flint, powder, and lead is still out there.
Snuffer

Offline galamb

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #69 on: November 18, 2013, 11:00:41 PM »
I work in retail warehousing and we just received (last 2 weeks sometime) a notice from our ammunition suppliers (the wholesalers for Federal, Winchester and Remington, our primary brands) stating that the outlook for 2014 is no better than it was for 2013 with regards to availability and that we should order an entire years supply for every product desired, plus every possible substitute and basically "hope for the best".

They state that a component shortage coupled with higher than usual demand has left significant back-orders for just about everything that is normally shipped.

Since this "drought" is coming into it's second year and doesn't look to be coming to an end anytime soon, if you can find a source you may want to acquire a couple years supply, with a bit extra "just in case".

Even the premium ammunition is becoming difficult to get - so when a $65 box of 30.06 is in short supply, you know the low margin items are not going to be produced...
Graham

A Flintlock is a "modern" weapon compared to my long bow...

Offline drago

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #70 on: November 19, 2013, 03:40:37 AM »
Sportsman warehouse has RWS in stock

Offline stude283

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #71 on: November 19, 2013, 05:37:15 AM »
KB2112,
            I don't know where in NY you are,but Frank's gun shop in Gloversville NY has CCI 10's and 11's and I think Winchester mag 11's in stock at reasonable prices.

Offline Maven

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #72 on: November 20, 2013, 07:25:54 PM »
Just returned from the Gander Mtn. Kingston, N.Y. store, which has both Remington #11 and Winchester #10 & #11 percussion caps @ $6.99 (mismarked) and $7.99, respectively.  Their prices are typically very high, but unforunately, they're the only game in town. :'(
Paul W. Brasky

Offline Black Jack

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #73 on: November 20, 2013, 07:27:16 PM »
I posted back in August that they were available at my local Gander Mtn (Scranton, PA area). That is still the case and the racks are fully stocked with Remington and Winchester brand #10 and #11 caps. Priced from 6.95 to 7.95 per 100 tin.
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jamesthomas

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Re: Does anyone have any idea when percussion caps will be available ?
« Reply #74 on: November 21, 2013, 01:40:45 AM »
 A gun store near me has them $7.99 a 100, But I shoot a FL. TOTW will always have flints with no hazmat. Having a percussion rifle with no caps is like having a Ruger 10/22 with no bullets.