Help with some early J&S Hawken rifle details

[galamb]

I have been doing some (personal) research for a Hawken build and have run across some notes regarding two fairly early J&S built Hawken rifles.

The first being one being carried by Mountain Man Jed Smith (killed in 1831). The only notes I can find on the actual rifle are that it was percussion. I am aware that a "commemorative" Santa Fe Hawken was produced commercially, but can not take that to be representative of the original in any way given the way production mfg's alter things to suit their needs.

The second rifle was ordered by Lucien Fontenelle (American Fur Company Brigade leader) in 1832 and included an order for 500 percussion caps - so again, a percussion rifle.

I have been unable to find any detailed description of either of the rifles - were they eastern style? full-stock? barrel length? caliber? etc, and certainly no pictures (whether they exist in private hands, at a museum or have been lost to time).

Any details regarding either of the above rifles would be greatly appreciated.

[Dennis Glazener]

See donstith.com
Dennis

[Habu]

I've heard nothing provable on the whereabouts of Smith's rifle.  There is a rumor that it may have been recovered by his brother when he re-acquired the pistols, but I've seen no contemporary accounts of this. 

I'd not be surprised to learn that someone amongst the Fontenelle family still has Lucien's rifle.  I don't think it has turned up in any local or state museum collection (at least not with an attribution of having belonged to LF), and I haven't heard of anyone claiming to have it in a private collection. 

Some years back I had the opportunity to examine a hunting pouch that was said to have belonged to Lucien Fontenelle.  (The provenance and actual pouch suggested it may have belonged to Lucien's son, Logan.)  Anyhow, around that time I had some contact with a couple of the Fontenelle descendants, and asked about Lucien's rifle. No one was aware of the whereabouts of the rifle.

I guess that doesn't help much, but maybe it will help you narrow down your search. 

Jim

[galamb]

Appreciate the replies.

I do suspect getting details on a very early St. Louis Hawken is going to be a stroke of luck at best.

I'm looking in that gray area between when they would have definitely been building Maryland styled eastern rifles and Plains/Mountain style which had evolved, at least to the point of recognition, with the Atcheson rifle known to have been built in 1836.

The two I mentioned above were simply a pair of "known to most probably be" percussion rifles that could have been built at the very start of the "wide" availability of caps in St. Louis (1830-32) and points west (at least in significant enough numbers that one would consider carrying a percussion rifle that their life may depend on).

Over the course of trying to track down examples of these rifles I am finding that Sam was "somewhat prolific" in building rifles in the few years he was in St. Louis "before" he partnered up with Jake. So during the period of 1822 to 1825, Sam alone may have put a good number of "St. Louis Hawken's", albeit Eastern style, into the hands of trappers.

Anyhow, the search continues