Setting flints in leather or lead--how thick should the leather be?

[Natureboy]

   Here's something else that seems to attract a variety of opinions: installing flints with leather or lead.  Some say lead keeps the flint from "chattering" when it strikes the frizzen, others say that lead tends to wear out both flint and frizzen.  If using leather, how thick should it be?  I see lots of photos of flints held with rather thick leather, while I use some that I cut from an old leather glove, to hold the flint firmly but reduce the "chatter" referred to in many forums I've read.  My thinking is that thinner leather is a compromise between the two substances--am I right, or should I use a thicker piece of leather?

[Hungry Horse]

Leather! Lead is for simpletons.

                Hungry Horse

[Karl Kunkel]

The use of lead is only applicable to large military musket locks. 

[volatpluvia]

Natureboy,
I had a piece of thinish leather on my Chambers early germanic lock I think almost for the time I owned it, twelve years.  I think I replaced it when it was so brittle that it was breaking up.  During that time the frizzen did indeed have  a few tracks on it but not what I would call much in the way of wear.  I likely fired several thousand rounds through the gonne.  I didn't keep track, but it was so reliable in firing that I had no doubt it would go boom anytime I raised it to fire.  My flints usually lasted between 50 and 150 shots.  Much of the time the flints were slowly knapped by the action of the lock.  I seldom had to knapp the flint during the course of its life.
While I used thicker leather on some other chambers locks it did not seem to make a difference.  I think the quality of the lock is the most important ingredient.  And the quality of the flint is the next.  Most of the flints I used were bought at Dixon's Gunmaker's Faire from the man who sat there all weekend and created flints from rocks.  The last year of my owning the Yeager I bought some blond flints from the dude in England Peter something or other.  The life and performance seemed equal to the black ones from Dixon's.  I couldn't tell completely because I did not wear one out before I sold the gonne to a friend.  The only way he will give it up is if you pry it from his cold dead hands.
volatpluvia

[Habu]

Leather! Lead is for simpletons.

                Hungry Horse

You know, this could have been an interesting discussion.  Maybe it could even have gotten into some of the historical rationales for the use of one over another (and there were arguments both ways, as well as discussions as to when you might choose one over the other, and why). 

But when name-calling starts so early, there is no reason to continue. 

[Natureboy]

  You're right--I didn't want to start a fight.  I always assumed that leather was best, but recently I've seen some strong opinions about using lead, either from sheets or balls pounded flat.  Since I don't want to pound on my balls, I'll stick with leather.  I don't pretend that I'm not a simpleton, however.

[Vomitus]

   I think I might be a simpleton,er...maybe not! I use leather about a 16th inch thick. I've heard those big military locks can handle a pounded flat piece of lead, but I think I'll stay clear of that in my puny sporter locks.
  Welcome Natureboy,you'll fit in here perfectly,lol! Still laughing!  Do simpletons pound their balls?

[Kermit]

Or do they leather their rocks?

I've always used leather, cuz that's how I was dragged up in this game. I recall being told that using lead somehow imparted shock to lock parts that was a no-no. Leather was supposed to take some of that shock out. I've got no idea if it's true. I do know it's easier for me to cut a piece of leather and to carry a couple of spares in my flint wallet. Unless you lose one, a bit of leather might last longer than you do.

Thickness? I use deerhide.

[Natureboy]

Well, I used to be an Irish tenor, but now I'm a soprano.  I had better get the lead out.  Shooting a flinter is somewhat new to me, but I've been shooting BP since I was  kid, first with my great-grandfather's Mississippi Rifle from his service in Sherman's Good Will Tour of Georgia and the Carolinas, and also with large civil war cannons in the 60's.  I now have 3 new rifles, the latest a custom-built English-influenced 54 caliber long rifle.  My living history project is to honor my ancestors' service in the French War and the War of Independence, as militia men in upstate New York.  Unfortunately, most reenactors here in Oregon are of the mountain man variety, so I have to sometimes adjust my clothing to fit in.  I'm having a lot of fun.

[Vomitus]

      hard to sit wit dem buckskinners and buffler hunters!!

[Daryl]

Chrome (modern) tanned buckskin is good, brain tanned is better. Split Horse hide (Mexican Jacket) is just as good imho & worked for me, for years.

 I'd think split cow hide might be too thick if from the back- not sure.

Thin, PURE lead as acquired from the walls of an X-ray room at the Hospital works well. The stuff I had was .025" so I doubled it. It worked very well, but might be too much for long throw cock - like on a Chambers lock. The 'extra' inertia might be hard on parts - & flints. I had one lock, a Siler that liked the lead sheeting when used with Rich's river rock flints. Incredibly bright shower of extremely hot sparks.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I only use leather.  Here's what the leather has to do, as far as I'm concerned.

The leather has to be thick enough to allow the teeth in the top and bottom jaws of the cock to embed themselves without completely piercing, even under the pressure of being screwed done tightly against the flint.  And the leather has to be thick and tough enough to be compressed into the nuances of the irregular surfaces of the flint, and every one of them is different.  What works for me is the tops of leather work gloves.  It is a split cowhide or maybe horsehide (rough both sides) a little over 1/16" thick.  I usually cut several at a time to a pattern that works in each lock, and store them in the bag that is designated for each rifle/gun.  The best advice would be to change the leather every time you change a flint, but I admit, I don't do that.  Still, I don't let them get too old before I put in a new one.
Lead, and I've tried it, tends to not have the shock absorbancy of the leather, and flints tend to shatter.  Anyone who has knapped igneous rock into tools and projectile points understands the properties of the leather support/pads.  Nothing works better than leather.

[WKevinD]

The issue I have with lead is that it has a tendency to keep thinning out as the flint strikes the frizzen repeatedly. I have lost musket flints when this happened. Yes it can be continually tightened but I prefer the way leather stays after initial tightening. At this point in the game I want stuff that works...consistently.

[SCLoyalist]

Larry Pletcher documented some leather vs. lead tests over on blackpowdermag.com   which might answer some questions, or raise others....

[hanshi]

Leather is all I use.  Not thick stuff but about the grade of what a shoulder bag is made from.

[Acer Saccharum]

Once upon a time, I had made a die for cutting out lead  for flint jaws. Jim Chambers admonished me that the extra inertia from the laed caused a number of cock necks to shear from the strain.

I use leather.

[Bob Roller]

I have never sent out a flintlock with the flint clamped in lead.
Jim Chambers is right and it can spoil a hunting trip quickly with
a broken cock.

Bob Roller

[Candle Snuffer]

I tried it once when I heard about it a long time ago.  Went right back to leather as I saw no advantage in a lead wrap.  Had to try it though.  I don't know why for sure....

[LH]

I guess everybody finds something that works for them and can be found easily.  I tried lead one time and that was enough for me.  I like belt leather because it seems to maintain its grip on the rock better than thinner stuff.

[wattlebuster]

I tried a piece of brain tan a few yrs back and really like the way it grips the flint

[mikeyfirelock]

I always save my worn out shoes and cut them up for this purpose.   It works nicely.  Generally its a little more substantial than old gloves or similar items. 
Mike Mullins

[tricorn hat]

If you set your flints in a piece of thick, soft deer skin that you have soaked in white wood glue they will NOT come loose and the life of your flint will be considerably extended.

[Natureboy]

TC, that sounds interesting.  Do you let the glue dry before installing the flint, or do it when it's wet?  Does the glue tend to stiffen the leather so it
limits the amount of "chatter" when the flint hits the frizzen?

[Hungry Horse]

On my hunting rifles I always use a nice thick piece of oil tanned leather, notched at the rear to span the top jaw bolt. I also notch the heel of the flint, to span the bolt, to keep it from shifting sideways on impact. I rarely have a problem with loose flints.

                      Hungry Horse

[sloe bear]

 I  agree with your thoughts, I use the leather from a old clove,its worked for me over the past 30+ years why mess with something that works so well. easy to get glove leather, afler the gloves wears out there is plenty of very good leather left use it up. my two cents for leather