what kind of paper(weight) was used in rev war for exact paper cartridges

[sonny]

I am trying to make paper cartridges for rev war reenactment, an wondered what was paper weight that they used to make perfect rolled/folded/accurate copies for the ultimate in authenticisim. Yes, I know they used round balls inside!!!!....were they colored papers/tan/white/brown? 40 # weight? newsprint? 30#.....what??? I need the most accurate close paper type available to me. Did rolling dimensions stay the same for entire continental army for entire war? Did we roll like the French rolled them later on???..............thanks........sonny

[stuart cee dub]

I read some years ago that one congregation in New England ,mostly patriots were using the pages of their hymnals as cartridge paper .

An early example of ''Praise the lord and pass the ammunition''

[Daryl]

:French


:English


:American, I believe, with the powder chamber broken off, only the buck and ball remaining.



:Some Civil War pickups


Mine - much easier to roll and more practical to use with less waste of powder and VERY accurate in a rifle.

[sonny]

hummmmm interesting!!!!........do you know by chance,what weight the paper was on issued cartridges?............I am using computer printing paper right now, but find that you really have to rip hard to get at the powder....too hard I think!......is butcher paper easier to rip with teeth?geez I have great teeth but wow, you have to errrrrr an rip to hurry up.....sonny

[Pete G.]

The paper used "back then" was linen based, not the wood based that we have today, and was much more flexible. That is why you can find a two hundred year old book that is in better condition than a 50 year old book.

That said, I have found the stuff sold in the paint department of the home improvement store as masking paper to work well for cartridge paper.

[moleeyes36]

Mine - much easier to roll and more practical to use with less waste of powder and VERY accurate in a rifle.

Daryl,

I admit to a total lack of knowledge on how paper cartridges were used.  You say your version is very accurate in a rifle and that interests me.  How do you load them?  Just tear open the powder end, dump it down the barrel and load the ball, still wrapped in the paper, down on top of that?  Thanks.

Mole Eyes

[Daryl]

 Sonny- sorry, don't know the paper used. I would try 18 pound printing paper.  If only 2 wraps, it is fairly easy to tear off.

mole eyes
The ball end of the ctg. sits in the palm very nicely, and the tip of the small end is ripped off with the teeth, then shoved down into the muzzle. The ball stops it and while you pull out the loading rod, the powder drains down into the breech.  The rod is choked up on - only a couple inches from the end, and carefully the ball, with paper covering is shoved down into the bore about 2" or 3".  The paper covered ball, as I make and recommend others make them for rifles, is a VERY snug fit- with the lands marking the paper as it is showed down. You cannot shove them into the bore with your thumb.
Pushing them down a bit into the bore first, with a choked up rod or a short starter, gives rod support and allows the paper ctg. to be easily seated form there down onto the powder- firmly. That compresses the paper beneath the ball and assists in sealing the ball and bore from gas blowby.

Dan Pharris as well as several others here at the ALR have used this style of paper ctgs. in their 28 through 12 bore rifles and achieved identical shooting at 50 yards as with their normal tight cloth patch.  A close friend of mine here uses them in his 11 bore Sporting Rifle with equal accuracy to patched balls, but due to the over depth rifling, his bore fouls badly. It's .025" deep rifling fills with fouling as the paper, I assume, cannot seal it or scrape out previous shot fouling well, even though he's running low pressures. He must wipe the bore out every 3 or 4 shots - a nasty, dirty job.

The smallest bore these paper ctgs. seem to work in, is a .54. I expect this is due to the normal low pressures associated with the larger bores. I have only shot them in my .69 - which shoots identically at 100meters, with paper ctg. or ball patched with 12 ounce denim. (.025" to .030"[compressed] depending on tool used) In that rifle, I can shoot 10 without having to wipe the bore, then I shoot one shot with a dripping wet patched ball and 3 drams of powder. That effectively cleans the bore and allows another 10 paper ctg. to be accurately fired.
I developed this method to allow easy loading and good accuracy while hunting our North Country in the Winter time for moose due to the extreme temps involved - down around -40F to -56F. Few oils will work at those temps and no greases do. Also- those temps are hard on springs and everything else.  We were also younger then.

[moleeyes36]

Daryl,

Thanks, that's very interesting.  I'd never heard of shooting paper cartridges in any rifle other than a rifle musket, which of course has shallow grooves. 

The next time it gets to -56F and I go moose hunting here in Florida, I may try that.  You guys WAY up there in the North are a hardy lot, I'll say that.  I start thinking of staying in camp on mornings when it's in the upper 30s.  And that's ABOVE zero!

Mole Eyes

[Old Bob]

Many samples I've seen were made from newspaper.

[bob in the woods]

I use the same type of cartridges in my .62 cal flintlock. Easy and quick to load.  The taper of the cartridge makes it so user friendly, I would never go back to cloth patched balls in that rifle when hunting.  The .62 is my moose and bear rifle.

[John A. Stein]

Sonny---Find some paper you can tear easily with your teeth. Col. Berkeley Lewis in his study of  ammo cited the scarcity of identifiable examples of Rev War cartridges, but showed a photo of a cartridge made for the French musket. The paper had printing indicating it was cut from a public document. Also in 1862 Gen. Hindman complained of the lack of paper, and wrote that pages from the State Library were used to make ammo. In all the documents Lewis shows, complete specs of ammunition are printed, but just "paper" was used,sometimes "cartridge paper" but it is never further defined. Use what works. Be careful, your PCness will take a hit if your cartridge shows part of a Harley ad! Hope all this helps. John.

[bob in the woods]

Paper [ or at least the stuff I use ]  has a grain direction . You can use that to your advantage when making your cartridges, so that it is easier to tear them when loading. 

[heelerau]

 Mate, I use bienfang 360 which is a linen rag paper for my Enfield paper cartridges, outer envelope, I use butchers  paper for the powder cylinder. Google making enfield paper cartridges and you should get a picture of some of mine.   I reckon butchers paper would be a good as anything, as it looks like your revolutionary chaps likely as not used any paper they could get a hold of !!

Cheers

[Daryl]

It is highly unlikely that any foot soldiers made or wrapped their own ctgs.

Paper ctgs. when and where used, were issued by the military.

[George Sutton]

Years ago I made mine from newspaper soaked in potassium nitrate.

I think they used what they had.

I have some 18th century laid paper, if you would like to purchase some, contact me.

Centershot

[bob in the woods]

I believe that the nitrated paper cartridges are for later period arms.  The reason to nitrate is that the paper is supposed to ignite/burn upon firing. I don't want my paper cartridges to do that.  e.g.. the Sharps cartridges were nitrated, but I don't think the British cartridges for the Brown Bess were .

[Daryl]

right- paper ctgs. for the breech loading percussion Sharps rifles were nitrated - don't do it for your musket ctgs.

If a good snug fit in the bore - and engraving slightly in a rifle's lands, the paper does not catch fire and emits in a single piece or like confetti if of weaker paper.

If the paper catches fire, it/you might start a fire - a chargeable offense if your fire gets away from you.

[George Sutton]

I didn't say it was period correct. I nitrated the paper so it would burn up. I felt it was better than leaving smouldering paper in the woods.

Centershot

[thecapgunkid]

This is a good question with a lot of interesting comments.  When I apprenticed as a shoemaker in Bethpage Village, I saw a lot of paper shoe patterns from around 1830 backward made from the ordinary brown paper seen in butcher shops and deli's...now almost a thing of the past.   The paper samples were a little worn, but it is obviously documented that this stuff was around. Probably militia or individually used..

There are not a lot of journals or diaries that describe HOW paper cartridges were made, more like a duty in the army of WHEN they were made.  The samples ( the ones above are very good...thanks)  and a manual or two show it but there were not a lot of miked out dimensions because most work-a-day folks  did not think like that often back then.   Moreover, there are a lot of sources pointing to the fact that paper and glass could get mighty scarce in the colonies, indicating that using newsprint was more of an exception than a rule.

As was said above, most military units had them issued and I have never seen a spec used by an 18th century army about what to use.  A great reply here would post where to go to see such a source.

 The low level details are speculative enough to be really interesting...you know...the Butler's Ranger who breaks into a Mohawk Valley house and steals a book using it for his cartridges, ...some petty fogging warrant officer ordering paper for the regiment and whether or not he skimped to save money...the junior officer remarking to a colleague on how he doesn't care about the load but is more worried about the line holding up in the bayonet charge...

Thanks for the post

Don't shoot yore eye out, kid

The Capgun Kid

[Daryl]

Centershot - I've fired over 200 paper ctgs. in my .69 - not a single one ever caught fire - none - however, when my late buddy Brad tried nitrated paper ctgs. in his Shiloh Percussion Sharps, he had quite a few that merely caught fire but stayed mostly whole and had to be removed from the chamber. They had burn spots, and some remained smoldering on the front end. Others were discharged burning with the bullet and smoke, and had to be extinguished on the ground.  They were rarely totally consumed, yet he followed the instructions on nitrating the paper.

The didn't work for him so he went back to loose powder and bullet.  Incidentally, many times, the ctg. that was being inserted would "go off" due to burning embers in the chambers - this from notes and original exerts in "Firearms of the American West, 1803-1865" - might also have been mentioned in Frank Sellers book on Sharps rifles.

If you start a fire - I suspect arson would be the charge.

[WadePatton]

"Arson" could be the charge, but generally requires intent.

I was given a warning ticket for burning without permit when I caught the woods on fire.  After we and State Dept. of Forestry got it contained.  But then this isn't wide-open country, and things were greening up.

Be safe out there.  Intentional or Accidental, the fire does not care and will go where the wind and fuel takes it.

Paper, would not hemp paper be a likely candidate for historics?

[Daryl]

Are you talking about cigarette papers? HA!

[WadePatton]

No, not tobacco cigarette rolling papers, but that hemp fiber was (is) used to make paper and and fabrics. 

Which were both much more common then than now.

"Cotton bond" paper used to be readily available.  Maybe is similar.

[hammer]

The East India Company records are detailed on ammunition.  The paper issued from England for paper cartridges for the Brown Bess and other smooth-bores was in reams, in sheets measuring 22 inches x 17 inches.   It was termed Fine White and was 0.003 inch thick.  Three wraps around the ball increased the diameter by 0.012 inch.    Powder, paper and lead were shipped in bulk.   Wooden formers were made locally to the prescribed dimensions.  Balls were cast in the armouries where the cartridges were made up.   Balls were also rolled there in the same way we do ourselves now to make them perfectly round.  A tool similar to a carpenter's brace provided the motive power, hand cranked.   Spare formers, paper, powder, twine and balls were carried by the artillery for the infantry to supplement their supplies in the field.    These processes applied to both East India and Kings troops.
Light infantry had the option to use loose powder, ball and patch for improved accuracy when circumstances allowed.    With a naked ball, the average windage was 0.0375 inch each side, a total of 0.075 inch.   No patch cloth survives for smooth-bores and that for rifles would be far too thin.  The conclusion is that it must have been a very thick weave.
This comes from Small arms of the East India Company, Vol.3, Ammunition and Performance, by D.F.Harding.   Now out of print and very rare.   Worth its weight in gold. 

During the first major English military expedition over the Appalachians in the F&I wars, that included Washington and his American troops, the militia found it difficult to learn to use paper cartridges so bullet pouches and horns had to be purchased especially.    I haven't seen a reference to cloth for patches so have assumed they used readily available wadding?

All invaluable stuff.

[Clark Badgett]

Blank newprint paper makes excellent cartridges. Strong enough to roll, thin enough to tear easily with the teeth.

The 19th century manuals for loading listed the proper order as such;
1. With musket at half cock, prime and close frizzen.
2. Charge musket with remaining powder.
3. Pinch the ball out of the tube and ram home.

I am sure if the ball was tied in with string the cartridge tube was probably rammed as well.