Author Topic: Longrifle from the late 1960s?  (Read 37500 times)

Offline heelerau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 666
Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« on: August 28, 2014, 03:41:59 PM »
 I have just aquired this rifle, it has a straight Douglas barrel in .36, a lock that I suspect is pretty crappy, does have a fly, but the smallest flint fitted still sits against the frizzen and does not let it sit flat on the pan. Lock only lets off when the trigger is set. Does not spark reliably, springs have been wedged and the frizzen re hardened. The photos are not the greatest, seems ver similare to my Lancaster style long rifle as far as some of the carving each side of the barrel channel, cheek piece. Any thoughts on what it is suposed to be or is it just a sort of generic rifle. I have recently posted some photos in my last post .

cheers

Gordon
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 10:52:59 PM by heelerau »
Keep yor  hoss well shod an' yor powdah dry !

Offline Virginiarifleman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 488
Re: Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2014, 05:21:52 PM »
Looks like you have an original longrifle that someone has tried to refurbish. looks late 1800's to early 1900 or the pictures are throwing me off.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 05:24:22 PM by Virginiarifleman »

Offline heelerau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 666
Re: Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2014, 07:22:59 PM »
Mate, my pictures are not very good, it does look like an original, as it was kept in a pretty rough environment, it has patina in plenty!!! I am quite sure it is not an original rifle. I wondered if it may have been an early Dixie rifleworks kit, but I gather there may have been no kits as such available in the late 60s.  It seems to be an early style by the butplate, and it has quite a lot of carving. It mounts nicely to the shoulder, but is muzzle heavy as the barrel is not double tapered.  I have known the rifle since I was 14, and have allways been curious about it as it is the first custom longrifle I had ever seen.  It does have "Century Arms Melb", "(Melbourne Victoria, Australia) crudely punched into a brass plate dovetailed into the top barrel flat. I have spoken to said company who deny all knowledge of it, claiming it is to crude to be something they would sell.  It may have been marked that way to improve its local down under value.  My mate bought it in 1970 at the Adelaide Gunshow, South Australia.
    thanks for having a look

cheers

Gordon
« Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 07:25:10 PM by heelerau »
Keep yor  hoss well shod an' yor powdah dry !

Offline Virginiarifleman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 488
Re: Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2014, 04:08:39 AM »
it is an interesting Rifle. keep us informed if you find anything out on it.

Offline Tim Crosby

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17989
  • AKA TimBuckII
Re: Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2014, 11:57:22 PM »
 If you post pix here you may get more response. I tried three times but am able to get to them.
Here is the tutorial:
   http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=10.0



   Tim C.
 

Offline heelerau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 666
Re: Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2014, 12:50:26 PM »


Tim, thanks for that, looks like it worked, sorry the photos are not better, if anyone is particularly interested I can try again when I get home in a couple of weeks.

Cheers

Gordon
« Last Edit: August 30, 2014, 12:52:21 PM by heelerau »
Keep yor  hoss well shod an' yor powdah dry !

Offline heelerau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 666
Re: Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2014, 11:56:53 AM »

Gents some better shots, anyone know the make of lock, it has a fly but poor geometry, flint holds the battery off the pan.
cheers

gordon
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 12:06:11 PM by heelerau »
Keep yor  hoss well shod an' yor powdah dry !

ottawa

  • Guest
Re: Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2014, 01:08:10 PM »
looking at the pics of the frizzen it looks like it mite of had its face redone or a shoe put on it that might have been to thick and be causing the flint to touch.

Offline Shreckmeister

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3749
  • GGGG Grandpa Schrecengost Gunsmith/Miller
Re: Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2014, 02:29:46 PM »
I think both the hammer and frizzen are not original to the lock or maybe just the frizzen and the hammer is original but the flint in it is too big.
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline heinz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1158
Re: Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2014, 03:55:33 PM »
Looks like a nice rifle but the Russ Hamm style lock will be a problem.  That style lock works best with just a very small flint, almost a chip.  Get with Bob Roller on what he makes that will fit in the inlet and then lap the barrel out a bit and you will never look back on that purchase.
kind regards, heinz

Offline Algae

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
Re: Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2014, 03:58:56 PM »
Whatever you decide to do, that is one dandy rifle111
Al J.

Offline heelerau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 666
Re: Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2014, 01:19:25 AM »
Looks like a nice rifle but the Russ Hamm style lock will be a problem.  That style lock works best with just a very small flint, almost a chip.  Get with Bob Roller on what he makes that will fit in the inlet and then lap the barrel out a bit and you will never look back on that purchase.

Mate, am looking at a TOW John Bailes lock,  sometimes known as a small Manton.   I have printed out the page from the catalogue, It seems to be the right length, but may be a 16th of an inch to narrow.  I will also have a chat to Mr Roller.  This rifle has won a lot of gold medals in competition, has a lovely Douglas barrel. Pity it is not swamped as it is a bit muzzle heavy, but does mount the shoulder well and hold nicely. Thanks you blokes for having a look.

cheers

Gordon
Keep yor  hoss well shod an' yor powdah dry !

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12524
Re: Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2014, 03:46:47 AM »
I think a Chambers' late Ketland would be a better fit in that mortise.  At least consider it.

Whoever built the rifle had some knowledge and skill.  I think you are on your way to a really nice piece.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline heelerau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 666
Re: Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2014, 02:26:33 PM »
I think a Chambers' late Ketland would be a better fit in that mortise.  At least consider it.

Whoever built the rifle had some knowledge and skill.  I think you are on your way to a really nice piece.

Mate, thanks for having a look, have looked at the late Ketland, and will give that proper consideration as well. I am going to try knapping a small flint back even smaller and see it that gives me a result. Both my other flintlocks are ver ver reliable, hence my dissatisfaction with this rifles current lock.  I am still curious to see if anyone thinks it is representative of any particular  school.


cheers

gordon
Keep yor  hoss well shod an' yor powdah dry !

Offline EC121

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1565
Re: Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2014, 07:00:15 PM »
Dixie Gun Works has some older parts.  They may have another frizzen
Brice Stultz

Offline heelerau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 666
Re: Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2014, 04:10:56 PM »
 Gents, cleaned the inside of the lock and found it faintly marked Russ Hamm, have found the replacement by L&R Lock company, co of TOW.   I have a couple of spare frizzens with the rifle, which I have swapped about the get the best sparker.
     Has anyone had enough to do with these L&R replacement locks?  to offer me a private opinion? It is exactly the same dimensions, but may require some internal adjustments to the lock mortise.  I am in no super hurry at this stage. 
      Still no Idea anyone,  as to what county the rifle may represent? .
 Thanks again you blokes.

gordon
Keep yor  hoss well shod an' yor powdah dry !

Ric27

  • Guest
Re: Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2014, 01:28:14 AM »
That is a very nice rifle. These type of guns are so important to the history of modern longrifle building. The builder new what he was doing and spared little in the building and decorating this rifle.

Ric27

  • Guest
Re: Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2014, 01:45:35 AM »
The Chambers Late Ketland is superior to any L&R. That said the L&R should be an improvement on you present lock.

The more I look and that gun the more I like it. Could you provide dimensions, barrel length, is it straight or tapered, butt width and hight, length of pull etc?

Offline heelerau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 666
Re: Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2014, 07:20:56 AM »
The Chambers Late Ketland is superior to any L&R. That said the L&R should be an improvement on you present lock.

The more I look and that gun the more I like it. Could you provide dimensions, barrel length, is it straight or tapered, butt width and hight, length of pull etc?
Ric, I will provide you with the dimensions in a week or so when I fly back from work. The barrel is a 40 inch  straight Douglas.  I will check the measurments of the Late Ketland and see if it will fit.  If anyone has the actual measurements, could they please pm me.  I have a couple of Chambers locks and am most impressed with them.

Cheers

Gordon
Keep yor  hoss well shod an' yor powdah dry !

Offline EC121

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1565
Re: Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2014, 03:33:47 PM »
The Late Ketland lockplate is 125mm x 24mm.  Mainspring and tumbler bridle depth is 10mm.  Center of pan is 48mm from the front of the plate.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 03:52:03 PM by EC121 »
Brice Stultz

Offline Dphariss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9741
  • Kill a Commie for your Mommy
Re: Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2014, 03:47:55 PM »
The Late Ketland is 125mm x 24mm.  Mainspring is 10mm deep.  Center of pan is 48mm from the front of the plate.

Good Grief!
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Dphariss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9741
  • Kill a Commie for your Mommy
Re: Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2014, 04:02:37 PM »
Looks like you have an original longrifle that someone has tried to refurbish. looks late 1800's to early 1900 or the pictures are throwing me off.

Its pretty nicely engraved it seems but it has a straight barrel, it has flat head wood screws and its not very dinged up. Looks like they oiled the bore and then let oil run out the vent and into the stock. This is blacken walnut sometimes as seen here though it often follows the grain and makes streaks.
The lock is similar to late FLs and I have seen an original Beck with a similar inlet, thought it now carried a different lock. But the lock is a Hamm copy I think. Which would be about 1970ish. So I think its a much better than average rifle of the 1960s. But at this distance it can be hard to tell.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline heelerau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 666
Re: Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2014, 02:23:12 AM »
Dan, you are right about the oil, the lock mortise has been pretty badly affected with oil as well. The lock is marked faintly Russ Hamm on the inside, found that when I cleaned the lock innards.   She is a most curious rifle, certainly here in Australia, I wonder if it may have been made up with original furniture. The rifle was bought from a gunshow in Adelaide South Australia about 1970.  Thanks for shewing interest in the rifle.

Cheers

Gordon
Keep yor  hoss well shod an' yor powdah dry !

jamesthomas

  • Guest
Re: Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2014, 06:07:02 PM »
The Late Ketland lockplate is 125mm x 24mm.  Mainspring and tumbler bridle depth is 10mm.  Center of pan is 48mm from the front of the plate.

 Good Grief is right, we don't do metric here, try it one more time, this time use English.

Offline JTR

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4202
Re: Longrifle from the late 1960s?
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2014, 07:54:20 PM »
Good grief, Australia uses the metric system, so I think the dimensions were given in mm as a courtesy to heelerau.
John
John Robbins