Kibler Copy ....Finished...(Replaced all of the Photos !)

[davec2]

Back in June, Jim Kibler completed a rifle that showed up on the Contemporary Makers site and precipitated some complimentary discussion (as usual) on ALR. 

http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2014/06/jim-kibler.html

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=31223.0

I mentioned at the time that I wanted to build a “copy of a Kibler” and said this;

"I can't add any more accolades to what the others have written.  There are many, in fact most, original rifles that I appreciate greatly for what they are and for who made them, but they almost always leave my artistic eye, what I have of one, a little... flat...for want of a better term.  There are many elements of any given rifle that I like, but there are almost no rifles that I can look at and say, wow, there is a rifle that I like everything about, the architecture, the engraving, the carving...everything.  And, unfortunately for my own building attempts, I can't explain it.  It's a lot like to trying to explain to someone why you think a woman is pretty.  There are the obvious attributes, but the undefinable subtleties are often the most important.  While there are many builders who like to make bench copies of originals, I would like to make, insofar as my talent would allow, a bench copy of a Kibler...and this one is a great candidate....As they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

So, here it is late August and I have been gathering the required parts to attempt a copy….54 caliber, 44 inch, Rice barrel, excellent stock blank from Dunlap,  Chamber English lock, TG, BP, RR pipes.  I had Dave Rase inlet the barrel for me...wonderful job...saved me a bunch of time (and he works too cheap for his own good).

Finished polishing & engraving the lock…I didn’t use the engraving pattern Jim used on this particular rifle but used one from another Kibler rifle that I preferred.  The lock needs to be case hardened.  The TG, BP and RR Pipes are rough shaped and ready to install, as is the nose cap, as soon as the stock gets most of the remaining excess wood removed with the band saw.  I’m working on the side plate.






















Up to my fanny in alligators right now with work, but I will see how far and how fast I can make this go.

Jim, I'm having to guess on some of this as the pictures on the Contemporary Makers site don’t show every angle.  I may have more questions.

[Jim Kibler]

Looking great Dave!  Can't wait to see it progress.  I made a foam impression of the gun yours is based on, recently at the CLA show.  I need to pour a plaster cast of this.  I can send it to you for reference if you send it back.  I think it generally captures the wrist and butstock architecture pretty well.

All the best,
Jim

[davec2]

Jim,

That would be great !!  I will gladly pay the postage both ways.  Also, do you happen to have any pictures of the underside of the forearm showing the area around the rear ram rod pipe?

[Acer Saccharum]

It looks like a Kibler so far! 

[davec2]

Looks like a plank so far......except for the lock.  I like the way that turned out.

[Acer Saccharum]

I like that Jim gun tremendously. It's one of my favorites. You will do a great job with it.

[Acer Saccharum]

One might say, oh, dear why is someone replicating contemporary work?
But Jim's mindset is firmly based in tradition. I firmly believe that smiths based much of their work on the work of others, the most up-to-date and in fashion work. So I would never question my motives...you like it...you do it.

I wait impatiently to see the outcome!   

[Jim Chambers]

Back in the late 80's or early 90's I walked into gunmaker's hall at Friendship and saw one of my more fancy rifles hanging there.  I had actually walked by it before I realized I had not put my rifle in the hall.  Heck, I hadn't even brought that rifle with me.  A closer look revealed it was an exact copy of my rifle and very well done by Dennis Mulford. (There'
s a name from the past.)  Later, Dennis came up to me and said he hoped I didn't mind him making a copy of my rifle because he loved it so much he had to have one just like it.  I was not at all upset.  Actually, I considered it to most sincere complement he could have given me, that he would take the time and effort to copy every little detail on my rifle and do it well.
Good luck with the Jim rifle project, I know it will be a great piece when you're finished with it.

[davec2]

Jim,

I'll send an address by PM for the plaster cast.

Acer,

In the past, when I have admired someones work (in several different fields), I had better luck learning how to do things and developing my own style by trying to exactly copy their designs and techniques first.  This is much easier to do as an on the spot apprentice, but that is not possible in my case (being marooned out here in the People's Republik of California.)  So, this is just the best way I know of being a long range apprentice.   Besides, I really like this rifle of Jim's and I want a copy for myself.

[WadePatton]

One might say, oh, dear why is someone replicating contemporary work?
But Jim's mindset is firmly based in tradition...

I wait impatiently to see the outcome!  

I'm with Dave (and Tom) on this, I don't know the other schools much at all (those with carving and engraving generally) but that as i peruse them I never really see one that I "like all over".  

Now, that I've looked at Jim's work (thanks Jan and Art Riser for the extensive photoset) I finally see one that I like stem to stern and all in the midships.  (to be imperfectly nautical about it).  

And with Dave tackling it, I expect there to be 2 such rifles very soon.  I have full confidence in Dave's abilities to pull this off.  This corroboration between the two makers (casts!!! so super), can only be good.

now about those alligators...you skin those?  

...Up to my fanny in alligators right now ...

[Pete G.]

Although I generally do not care for copies, it really makes a statement when talented builders want to start building a copy of your work.

[Majorjoel]

Jim Kibler + Dave Crisalli =     

[davec2]

I had 15 minutes to spare...and a band saw.  here is the stock with most of the profile excess wood removed.

[Jim Kibler]

Looking great!  I sent the casts the other day, so you should be getting them soon.  I don't have any other photos other than what's on the Contemporary Makers site.  Sorry!

Jim

[davec2]

Jim,

Thanks a bunch for sending the casts.  I will wing it on the details that don't show in those photos.

[davec2]

Jim,

The casts showed up in the mail yesterday.  They will be a HUGE help over just trying to do this from pictures. There are just so many nuances that you don't get from 2D images.

Thanks again for making them and for sending them along.  I will get them back to you soon.  Here are a few pictures of today's progress:

Casts from Jim......










Start of butt plate installation.....





Butt plate install finished.  Start roughing butt shape......

[WadePatton]

Jim,

The casts showed up in the mail yesterday.  They will be a HUGE help over just trying to do this from pictures. There are just so many nuances that you don't get from 2D images.
...

That's frikawesome! 

and in good hands. 

[davec2]

Had a little time to continue on this rifle..... 

Barrel lugs are installed (dovetailed and soldered)
Barrel is pinned to the stock
Breech plug is shaped, installed, inletted, and bedded
Ram rod pipes are installed









For this rifle, I am making the sights out of a meteor.  Far more rare than gold or diamonds.  The iron used to make these sights came from the far reaches of the galaxy.  It traveled to earth over millions of years.  It may have been traveling through the void since the moment of creation, slowly cooling on its journey to fall on what would become the United States.  It landed about 50,000 years ago in Canyon Diablo in Arizona and this fragment was recovered in 1891.  It came into my hands when I was a boy from a meteor laboratory and I have marveled at it all through these many years.  And now, before I pass from the earth, I will use its iron to make some of the tools of my life.  I do not know where this fragment of the universe came from.  I do not know where it will come to its final end.  But for now, and for heaven or $#*!, the ball from this rifle will always be guided to its mark by a piece of a star.

[Meteorman]

For this rifle, I am making the sights out of a meteor. 

... that's a passage you're not likely to read very often.

Tremendous notion, Sir.  Can't wait to see it.

/mike millard

[Curt Larsen]

Nickel iron is pretty tough stuff.  Hope you've got some really good files.  Keep us posted on how you do on this sight.

[Hemo]

Those casts are amazing! What is the material, and how were they made? (Especially without gunking up the original?)

[davec2]

Curt,

More of a problem than the natural toughness of the nickel iron is that, in many places, there are microscopic included diamonds that destroy a cutting edge.  I do a lot of forming by diamond sawing, grinding or, better yet, by EDM.

Hemo,

Jim Kibler did the casts of the rifle of his I am trying to duplicate.  You will have to ask him how the molds and casts were made.

[mr. no gold]

Interesting use of a meteorite; this has to be a first. Kind of neat in a way, but I dunno: to my mind it's kind of like breaking down a fine prehistoric stone arrow or dart point to use as a gunflint. Do let us know how it turns out if you would.
Dick

[kaintuck]

" and you never would believe where the Kibler rifles come, they're baked by elves in a hollow tree, and there's no factory!"
 

And Dave.....the meteorite thing is great......take the other part of it, and forge a Damascus patch knife to go with it.....
Marc n tomtom

[Algae]

This is going to be fun to watch!!
(how come my dovetails don't look like that!)
Al J.