Author Topic: Kibler Copy ....Finished...(Replaced all of the Photos !)  (Read 64106 times)

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Kibler Copy ....At a stopping point for now...
« Reply #75 on: October 14, 2014, 04:17:33 PM »
Beautiful work, Dave.
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline davec2

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Re: Kibler Copy ....Starting work again...
« Reply #76 on: October 31, 2014, 12:25:37 AM »
OK....had some time to start the wood finishing process.  Quite some time ago, I made up some aqua fortis nitrate stain using Bill Knight's excellent method noted in his book (with Bill Mende), "Staining and Finishing for Muzzleloading Gun Builders, Methods and Materials from 1750 - 1850".  (An outstanding resource, by the by.)  This is the first, and perhaps the only, application of the stain.  It is drying here and has not yet been heated.  The stock was whiskered twice prior to the application of the stain.







I like to dry stains and finishes in the warm California sun, but I get tired of running back and forth to flip the stock over and around.  Call me lazy, but I had a small 1 RPM synchronous motor, left over from some other project or other, and some scrap plywood and made up this "stock rotisserie".  I can move it around as needed and hang it on a hook or clamp it to something and it twirls the stock around in the sun for me once a minute.







« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 08:44:08 PM by davec2 »
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Kibler Copy ....Starting work again...
« Reply #77 on: October 31, 2014, 11:29:07 PM »
Looking good, Dave!  Can't wait to see it finished.

Jim

Offline KLMoors

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Re: Kibler Copy ....Starting work again...
« Reply #78 on: November 01, 2014, 12:38:22 AM »
That's coming along great Dave. That lettering is spectacular.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Kibler Copy ....Starting work again...
« Reply #79 on: November 01, 2014, 05:24:55 AM »
Dave, your gun looks great and your slow cooker is kinda neat too.  ;D

Offline Collector

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Re: Kibler Copy ....A little more progress....Meteorite sights done.
« Reply #80 on: November 03, 2014, 11:34:54 PM »
Are you going to 'stair-step' the front sight, directly copying the original, or just deviate slightly?

The rough finished sights.....




Offline davec2

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Re: Kibler Copy ....Starting work again...
« Reply #81 on: November 04, 2014, 07:10:09 AM »
Final form for the sights.....until I sight the gun in and make whatever modifications are needed......






« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 08:45:24 PM by davec2 »
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline davec2

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Re: Kibler Copy ....Finished...
« Reply #82 on: November 07, 2014, 10:47:23 PM »
Well....for better or for worse, I have completed my attempt at a copy of a Jim Kibler rifle.  No one would ever confuse the two, but this has been an excellent learning experience for me and, as usual, digital photography shows me many more of my mistakes than the naked eye.  Nonetheless, here is the final result:










































« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 08:46:42 PM by davec2 »
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Hemo

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Re: Kibler Copy ....Finished...
« Reply #83 on: November 07, 2014, 11:57:13 PM »
Very nice work, Dave!
Is that a little bolt holding on the rear of the trigger plate? If so, where's the other end?
(Isn't that a true statement about digital photography! I think I may start taking digital photos of my work so I can see my own mistakes!)

Gregg

Offline Tom Currie

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Re: Kibler Copy ....Finished...
« Reply #84 on: November 08, 2014, 12:32:15 AM »
Outstanding work Dave. Thanks for sharing your work. I'm impressed by how quickly you built this gun.

Offline davec2

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Re: Kibler Copy ....Finished...
« Reply #85 on: November 08, 2014, 12:34:37 AM »
Hemo,

The little nub you see on the back end of the trigger plate is the end of a tiny screw.  I always put in a very light leaf spring that lifts the trigger and keeps it in solid contact with the sear at all times to eliminate any rattle.  The small screw (that you see the end of where it comes through the plate) holds the leaf spring in place.  The trigger plate / pivot assembly is only held into the stock by the barrel tang screw.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2014, 12:36:29 AM by davec2 »
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline alyce-james

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Re: Kibler Copy ....Finished...
« Reply #86 on: November 08, 2014, 01:10:42 AM »
Dave; Sir, nicely done. Color, carving and molding from the front of the lock area. GREAT. Thanks for sharing. AJ. After thought, great idea a "Stock Rotisserie".
« Last Edit: November 08, 2014, 01:14:51 AM by alyce-james »
"Candy is Dandy but Liquor is Quicker". by Poet Ogden Nash 1931.

Offline WKevinD

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Re: Kibler Copy ....Finished...
« Reply #87 on: November 08, 2014, 02:30:18 AM »
Dave,
Outstanding! Love the color. Was that one application of your aqua fortis?
Just makes me humble. I use to think I was pretty good.
Love to see pure talent and passion for ones craft.
Kevin
PEACE is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.  Thomas Jefferson

Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Kibler Copy ....Finished...
« Reply #88 on: November 08, 2014, 03:46:34 AM »
Really nice rifle, Dave!  Not much more I could say, very well done!  Thanks for sharing the progress and these finished photos.


          Ed
Ed Wenger

Offline wattlebuster

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Re: Kibler Copy ....Finished...
« Reply #89 on: November 08, 2014, 03:50:04 AM »
Outstanding work. You copied Kibler. I would be happy if I was talented enough to copy you
Nothing beats the feel of a handmade southern iron mounted flintlock on a cold frosty morning

Offline B Shipman

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Re: Kibler Copy ....Finished...
« Reply #90 on: November 08, 2014, 07:33:30 AM »
Really nice rifle. Expand on the style, the flow of the carving and slowy build your own style.

Offline KLMoors

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Re: Kibler Copy ....Finished...
« Reply #91 on: November 08, 2014, 03:52:42 PM »
Another homerun Dave!  Looks great.

Offline Curt Larsen

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Re: Kibler Copy ....Finished...
« Reply #92 on: November 08, 2014, 04:00:27 PM »
WOW!!! and DOUBLE WOW!!!!

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Kibler Copy ....Finished...
« Reply #93 on: November 08, 2014, 08:04:30 PM »
If I were Jim Kibler, I'd be flattered.

Dave, I am very pleased to see your progress through the entire project, and to see it come to completion. Not many builders give us the chance to see all the sweat and indecision that can occur during a build. So, thank you for taking the time to show us all the steps.

One thing I particularly like about this project is that you chose something outside of your usual work, you stretched your artistic muscles on this one, and went out on a limb. You took a risk, and you succeeded in aces, in my opinion.

Did you find that working with someone else's palette caused you to think differently about rifle building? Did working in someone else's style cause a shift in your gun building interests? Did you learn new techniques and develop a different set of tools?

I relate this to painting; if I wanted to paint like Rembrandt, I'd copy his work until I 'got it', then launch my boat on my own journey.
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Kibler Copy ....Finished...
« Reply #94 on: November 08, 2014, 08:23:15 PM »
Well I am flattered!  You did a fine job, Dave.  There is a lot to be said for working outside your comfort zone.  I find that unless I purposely do this, it's hard to develop and understand new forms, designs and ways of doing things.  It's easy to get set in our ways.  Thanks Dave, you did a great job. 

Jim

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Kibler Copy ....Finished...
« Reply #95 on: November 08, 2014, 08:29:13 PM »
A + Dave!!!  You've done a terrific job in capturing Jim's fine rifle.  I will further compliment you by saying that this rifle reminds me a lot of David Dodd's work too.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline davec2

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Re: Kibler Copy ....Finished...
« Reply #96 on: November 08, 2014, 09:40:17 PM »
As a builder, I suffer from the HUGE disadvantage that I have never, NEVER actually seen an original long rifle with my own two eyes, let alone held one.  And, actually, I have only ever seen and held one single contemporary rifle that I did not make myself.  It was a beauty (I have posted pictures of it before) made by John Ennis.  It was truly magnificent, but I only had a chance to hold it for possibly 3 minutes and that was several years ago.

To answer some questions:

Burnt - the color was the result of two applications of aqua fortis / iron nitrate solution and subsequent and heat blushing.  The finish (per Smart Dog's posts) was Sutherland Wells Polymerized Tung Oil.

Acer - Working with someone else's palette / style was definitely an eye opener in so far as it expanded my technique, design eye, and sense of what I like and don't like.  And, in that vein, trying to duplicate Jim's work did indeed shift both my interests and my desire to learn better skills.

Taylor - Not a question, but I thank you for the comparison to David Dodd.  I assure you, it is not deserved but it is nice to think that I am making some progress.

Bill Shipman - Also not a question, but, just to warn you, one of your rifles may be my next attempt at a duplication...although trying to pick one to copy might be the hard part.

And to Jim Kibler, first let me thank you again and publicly for your gracious help, especially for sending the casts of your rifle (which should be back in your hands safely by now....I hope.  I sent them through the US Postal Service !)  Your answers to my emails about how to do this or that were also a great help and I hope I did not make too much of a pest out of myself.  But, to warn you and others, you guys are not off the hook yet.  I still need help next with carving, background leveling, and finishing...I am missing something.

I also wanted to share some of my "lessons learned":

1)  It is much easier to copy someone else's design than to come up with your own.  I usually spend much more time trying to decide what to do than it takes to actually do it.  Copying someone else's work eliminates all the decision time.

2)  It is very difficult to make a "bench copy" of anything when you don't have the original on the bench.  (Although, in this case, Jim's gracious gesture of loaning me casts of parts of his original rifle was a tremendous help).

3)  Digital pictures show too little and too much at the same time.  By that I mean that the 2D images don't show you everything (i.e. subtle contours, etc.) you need to know to duplicate something exactly, but they make things that look good in real life look like $#@* at a magnification of 5X.

4)  In making a less decorated rifle it is nice to smooth up all the brass parts and then realize that they are done.  On this rifle, I spent, perhaps, 5 minutes, total, cutting the very few engraved lines on the side plate and rear sight.

5)  As it was with my engraving, I struggled along for many years trying to learn techniques on my own without making a lot of progress.  After a week of face to face lessons with Jerry Huddleston, I learned more than I had in the previous two decades.  Along the same lines, I need to go take lessons on carving and finishing.  I am missing something that I can't seem to put my finger on without watching someone, who knows what they are doing, work in front of me.

6)  Jim Kibler has an unfair advantage.  He has seen and handled many more original Kibler rifles than I have. 

Thanks to all of you who have made comments expressing support, encouragement, and compliments.  They have all been greatly appreciated.  And sorry this project took so long...this working for a living really eats into my time.
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Kibler Copy ....Finished...
« Reply #97 on: November 08, 2014, 11:54:48 PM »
That's an excellent recap Dave.  I'd say you put that rifle together in record time.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Kibler Copy ....Finished...
« Reply #98 on: November 09, 2014, 02:44:20 AM »
Is there a way this could be captured in a short story? It's a pretty cool adventure. Dave, thank you for sharing your process: When you learn, we learn.
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline J. Talbert

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Re: Kibler Copy ....Finished...
« Reply #99 on: November 09, 2014, 06:48:56 AM »
Dave,

Great job all around!
Why am I not surprised?

Jeff
There are no solutions.  There are only trade-offs.”
Thomas Sowell