The best hand rubbed stock finish !

[PINYONE]

For yall Hill Billies you might already know this, for the city slickers, maybe not. A couple of year ago whilst up in Nawth Georgia, I were at a gathering of other hill billies who were having a Kuntry Barn sale. Well I jumped the ditch and was looking through the plies of old stuff, when all of a sudden I saw 2 ole timers coming up from the back, dressed in overhalls, had the real look about them, up in there 80,s. I spoke to them and when they walked by I saw the best sling shot I have ever seen hanging out the back pocket of one of there overalls. I said hey neighbor let me see that there sling shot. Said okay. It was sho nuff old as the hills- he said grandpap made it around the year 1900, they called it the snake for obvious reasons. Well after some serious hoss tradin I ended up with it. The handle had the best rubbed sheen I has ever seen on anything- I said what kind of wax is on here? They looked at each other and said- you sho are from the city- ain't no wax. Said son up here in the Kuntry all we has ever used is " rub whatever you have with several coats of linseed oil and let dry- then grab a hand full of old dried hickory- oak -maple leaves crush them in yur hand and rub the heck out of what are trying to polish. Do this as many times as you like- the more you do it the better t gets. I has been doing this every since and nothing compares- the ole hill billie Pinyone

[Tony Clark]

You know what else works good for doin the rubbin? ( just in case you can't get no handful of leaves, up north here theres about a good 5 months there pretty hard to find unless you got a shovel and a pick to get through the frozen white stuff) all you need is one of those heavy brown paper grocery sacks. Just take a good sized piece and crumple it up, works like a charm. Regards, TC

[Joe G]

I'll give that a try. Sounds better then the way I do it.. Thanks

[Rich]

I've now settled on Tried and True varnish. Woodcraft carries it. It is polymerized linseed oil and resin. Unlike linseed oil, it dries, so it doesn't take 108 years to reach a hand rubbed finish. I use 3 to 4 coats (following the directions on the can) then after it's good and dry (a few weeks), use linseed oil for the last few coats and maintenance. There are 2 versions of the Tried and True varnish. One has just the resin and oil, the other has beeswax added. I haven't tried the one with wax yet.

[Dphariss]

by Dan
It has more than just resin in it I am sure it has some driers.
It looks good as a stock finish.
But its clear and this is a detriment especially on walnut if it stays clear as it cures. Clear finishes just don't bring out the figure like a dark oil will. Some like some plastics actually hide the figure.

Dan

Sorry Dan- I meant to post under my own name, and inadvertantly modified yours.

Which is why I like True Oil.  Gotta rub it on - rub it around, do 3 to 8 well hardened coats then sand with 1500 grit down to wood, then 3 to 4 thin coats, polish with rouge/oil polishing paste, and buff - looks like a true Grand Piano mirror finish - or make it look any way you want - dull, satin, whatever - grain shows through beautifully. IMHO, of course.

Daryl

[Bruce Bump]

I like Tru-oil also. An old custom rifle maker taught me to thin it by 1/3 with mineral spirits. Be sure to sand the first coat while it is still wet and allow it to dry for about a week. After that simply rub a coat on and rub it back off. Do this many times over the next week or two. It builds up slowly and should be sanded with progressively finer grits every couple of coats. Finish off with 2000 grit and a good furniture polish.

[Dphariss]

Can you imagine wet sanding with varnish? I can, I have done it, 2 stocks  week average. I WOULD NEVER EVER DO THIS AGAIN.
Period.
While I have no experience with "huffing" I can only compare it to "huffing" paint fumes though the concentration is somewhat less if its summer and you can have a window open. I have done something in the region of 100-150 1874 Sharps stocks in this manner for C. Sharps alone. I worked over a year at 2 a week. Almost all precarved stocks some filled finish on open grain production guns, a couple of "Gemmers".
I have tried about everything on the market and various mixtures.  Then Mad Monk sent me some boiled oil while I was at Shiloh. Took a little experimentation to get it right. But its like night and day to anything else I have ever used.
Adding the Grumbachers simply makes it impervious to water spots. Basically makes it into a soft varnish that is probably 90% (?) linseed oil.
The photos are of the American grown English walnut stock on my 16 bore rifle. It was pretty light colored with some visible figure before oiling, about the color of unstained hickory in the lightest areas.
This stock was final finished in June 07. It has been hand carried at about 80-100 miles hunting, well over a thousand in vehicles I suspect, many rounds, 500?, of shooting etc etc. Low crawling in dirt rocks and grass. Falling on snow covered mountain sides. Hunted with... it has scatches and dings but shows NO WEAR aside from perhaps a slight, virtually unnoticeable dulling in places. Handling actually makes it look BETTER in most cases.
It has had no further work since June 07 and I think I probably have 1-1.5  hours total labor in applying the finish once the wood was ready.
In getting it out and looking I see it could stand another coat for maintenance but it still looks good and I just never noticed.
it is finished seal and top coat anyway, with home cooked linseed oil mixed about 50-50 with Grumbachers Oil Painters Medium III. I think I used a couple of coats of heavy oil for fill this is standard practice. Maple needs far less.
This is why I keep thinking a lot of people over work stock finishing.
Does anyone really think the English spent months putting on a "London" oil finish??
I cannot begin to tell you the frustration of wet sanding American walnut with store bought varnish. The fill pulls out of a few "pits" at some spot and then needs another day or two of wet sanding to complete an otherwise finished stock.
I gave up on Tru-oil for complete finishes the first stock I tried it on. I used to use Linspeed for a "shine coat". I have also used "Homer Formbeys" low gloss tung oil for top coats.
I really need to rust blue the barrel. I just plumb browned it for 07 hunting season intending to have teh breech color hardened and blue the barrel by spring 08....
Like the shoemakers kids....
My personal guns often get left partly finished.
Dan

[bigsky]

Dan,
You mention adding Grumbachers to the boiled linseed oil mix.  Which Grumbachers product did you add?
Kevin

edit
Sorry I just noticed that you said it was Oil Painters Medium III ... any idea what the medium is?

[Dphariss]

Back of the bottle lists Turpentine; Damar gum; D-Limonene; Polymerized Linseed oil; Copaiba Balsam.
Aside from the D-Limonene I think is even pretty HC.
You might find it in Sax & Fryers in Livingston.

We need to look each other up I guess being this close.
I will likely be gone for a couple of weeks starting in a day or 3 but should be back circa March 1.

Dan

[Dphariss]

[keweenaw]

This is a finish job that I liked doing and came out better than average.  It's on a moderately good piece of English walnut.  I dyed it with a water soluble aniline dye, filled it 2X with a commercial wood filler that I tinted dark with bone black and then top coated with 8 coats of Water-lox sealer and finish.  Coats were put on very thin and while still wet I rubbed it with the palm of my hand after dusting it with a trace of rotten stone.  Since I rubbed the snot out of it with my hand, I count that as a hand-rubbed finish!  Finish won't water spot and could be repaired invisibly.



Tom

[California Kid]

Snyder-
Did you put a light coat of sealer over the stain before the filler.
Getting ready to finish a fowler in english walnut that will be stained.
Seems if I put black filler right over the stain it gets muddy.
If I put a coat of sealer over the stain the filler doesn't fill as well.
What to do?

[keweenaw]

No I didn't seal before filling as it won't fill well that way.  I put the filler on a small section and wipe that section just as it starts to set, which is in only a minute or two.  I wipe extensively across the grain to get as much of the filler as I can off the surface.  If you let it on too long you can't get the filler off the surface and you get the muddy effect.  The down side is that you wipe some of the filler out of the pores, hence two coats of filler and it still wasn't completely filled.  That's partially where the rottenstone comes in.  By rubbing small amounts of that with the unset finish, it will also act to help fill the pores.  If you try this you might want to apply the rottenstone to the damp finish with a toothbrush.  Just touch the bristles of the brush to the rottenstone and then brush it into the finish to distribute it.  Rub immediately with your hand until it evens out and is almost dry working on a small section of the stock at a time.  Once you get the hang of it, it's not too bad to do, a coat on the stock can be done in about 15 minutes including brushing out the checkering.  On the stock in the photo there was a small section of white sapwood.  The aniline completely blended that in but there was no option of sanding in finish to fill the pores because that would have cut into the dyed sapwood. 

Tom

[tg]

I really like the BLO/turp /marine spar varnish I think Fred Miller explaines the process on a website somewhere I lost the link.

[ironwolf]

  You can buy from Midway or Brownells, a finish called GB Lin-Speed that is virtually identicle to the Fred Miller finish mentioned in the previuos post.   
  In the tips & tricks by John Bivens it is explained how he used this stuff.
Great stuff but just like the original, is not water proof.

  KW

[Tony Clark]

Snyder, that finish job really looks excellent to me, just the way it should. Everything else to. Nice the way you got the sapwood to blend in...looks like $#*! and sticks out like a sore thumb if a person doesn't know how to do that or care. Regards, TC

[Longshot]

I too, like the Waterlox.  It penetrates, rubs out well and is much more durable than BLO.  There are two types [that I know of]; I've gotten inferior results from the one with low VOC'S.
~Longshot

[Feltwad]

I use London Stock Oil but like all oil finish it takes months to achieve.
Feltwad

[longrifle]

That is really some great looking wood !!!

[PINYONE]

Hello Feltwad- what a nice rifle- you guys out there are doing some good work- if you can post some more photos of this piece- what a beauty. I know that is a keeper for you, to much time to sell it, The Great Pinyone

[JCKelly]

GB Lin-speed changed their process back in, I believe, the late 1960's, possibly early '70's. Process and/or chemistry.
My father used the old stuff to make a hand rubbed oil finish on numerous antiques, including a 4-poster he fixed up for my new bride & I in 1967.  When the formula was changed the new stuff was, per Dad, "sticky", would not rub out/flow out so well. 
I treasure a small supply of the old stuff, sent by Lin-Speed to Dad when he complained.

[Feltwad]

Pinyone the gun is a shotgun , not a rifle ,half stocked in plain English walnut and I built it in the 1970,s along with several other flintlock Fowler's.I will try and post some images in a day or so.
Feltwad

[Feltwad]

Enclosed are 3 images of the flintlock as promised ,I have also enclosed a couple of images of a sxs flinter that  came of the bench last week.
 At present it has had 3 coats of Alkenite root to fetch out the pattern and one coat of London oil Finish it will take months before it takes on a good oil finish
Feltwad

[longrifle]

Mn that is a nice one.

[PINYONE]

Man I am glad I posted this forum- because it was an invitation to see these fine guns, just really fine- thanks for the photos - Feltwad Rules- the great Pinyone