Author Topic: Are porcelain and burlap period correct?  (Read 6022 times)

Offline Klatch

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Are porcelain and burlap period correct?
« on: September 19, 2014, 06:16:37 AM »
Just want to know

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Are porcelain and burlap period correct?
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2014, 06:49:38 AM »
where ?  when ?

Offline Klatch

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Re: Are porcelain and burlap period correct?
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2014, 07:12:33 AM »
Pre 1840 USA

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Are porcelain and burlap period correct?
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2014, 10:50:07 PM »
The USA  covers a lot of ground !   Burlap [ hessian ] was not really brought to Europe /England  until the late 1700's.
It was made from jute that came from India & Pakistan I believe. The stuff found many uses, but I wouldn't think it would find it;s way to the back country of the USA until perhaps later in the 19th C.  Isolated instances…perhaps, but we are talking "common" aren't we ?
Porcelain was made on the European contenent back as far as the late 17th , early 18th C   It's manufacture was a well kept secret I think until the later 18th C, but I wouldn't doubt that well to do folks in The East Coast colonies would have some pieces. True porcelain's translucent qualities made it desirable among the well to do..  Again, how common it would have been among the " plebs" is questionable.
I'm not sure if Colonial Williamsburg has representative items in it's collection or not.  Worth checking .

Offline Klatch

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Re: Are porcelain and burlap period correct?
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2014, 11:27:30 PM »
Thanks Bob.  I just see lots of both at fur trade era rendezvous.  Neither items seems to really fit the era.

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Are porcelain and burlap period correct?
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2014, 03:00:20 AM »
Many of the things that we see burlap used for…sacks etc , was the job of baskets in the 18th C.
Instead of porcelain, are you perhaps referring to a more common white china ?

Pare Bowlegs

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Re: Are porcelain and burlap period correct?
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2014, 04:39:46 AM »
You might check through these fur trade records.
http://www.mtmen.org/mtman/bizrecs.html

Found it.
1  " Burlap 100 yds
http://www.mtmen.org/mtman/html/rmo1836.html

Pare-
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 05:32:56 AM by Pare Bowlegs »

Offline Klatch

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Re: Are porcelain and burlap period correct?
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2014, 06:30:11 AM »
Wow Pare!  What would they use 100 yards of 1" burlap for?  Nice find, but I'm more confused.  Those inventories are great!

Pare Bowlegs

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Re: Are porcelain and burlap period correct?
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2014, 06:59:01 AM »
Be hard to say. Maybe to be used as sacks to carry traps, food, extra gear, etc.

Pare-

Offline Mad Monk

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Re: Are porcelain and burlap period correct?
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2014, 12:20:06 AM »
I got into that in saltpeter imports into the U.S.

From what I could find you don't see much burlap until just before our Civil War.  It was around that time when somebody figured out how to make burlap cloth on machines.  Oiling the threads made machinery production of it possible.  Prior to that burlap cloth was hand made with limited its use.  Around 1860 du Pont imported something like 1 million pounds of saltpeter, from India, in burlap bags.

Offline PPatch

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Re: Are porcelain and burlap period correct?
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2014, 01:39:17 AM »
Chinese porcelain making began around 500 BC, china has a 5500 thousand history of pottery making. They were exporters of their wares and the Portuguese were the first to bring it into europe in the 16th century. European attempts at imitations of chinese porcelain began soon enough, but lacking the chinese Kaolin clay needed to make true translucent ware it was quite a while before something resembling chinese ware was marketed, as porcelain, which it was not. It kinda sorta looked like it. It became a huge fad none the less. Your best kaolin clay, 2nd only to chinese, is found in the state of Georgia btw.

Did some of it, european or chinese porcelain, make it to the colonies? Most probably, certainly in well off families ape'n the european porcelain craze. Would it show up at a rondy, not likely but still possible. Those out west weren't unaware of fashions back east.

dp

Here's a porcelian lidded bowl I made sometime in the late 70's (Georgia kaolin):
Dave Parks   /   Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Offline Klatch

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Re: Are porcelain and burlap period correct?
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2014, 12:57:56 PM »
Great stuff guys.  The knowledge of the people on this forum is amazing!

Offline Klatch

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Re: Are porcelain and burlap period correct?
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2014, 01:09:44 PM »
I was more curious about metal plates, cups & pans coated with porcelain.  Was that process even developed by the fur trade era? 

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Are porcelain and burlap period correct?
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2014, 03:50:22 PM »
I think you are referring to enamelled steel ware.  This didn't come into use until the 1800's, and the common seen "speckled" type stuff we see today wasn't patented until the mid 1800's { 1850 ? ]  so ……fur trade ?  Not really.
You see a lot of this stuff at Rendezvous because it looks " old timey "   It really became popular towards the end of the 1800's and into the 1900's

Offline Kermit

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Re: Are porcelain and burlap period correct?
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2014, 07:58:59 PM »
A lot of stuff has become acceptable at fur trade rondys that's not HC. LOTS of stuff. It's not quite as bad as the Society for Creative Anacronism. Bob's remark about "old timey" about says it.
"Anything worth doing is worth doing slowly." Mae West

Pare Bowlegs

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Re: Are porcelain and burlap period correct?
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2014, 09:55:13 PM »
I had read that enamelware was being made in America beginning around 1794, but wasn't as popular as the cheaper-made tin or pewter and simply went out of business. I checked for the ink, but its no longer available.

I believe what Bob in the Woods said is right though.

Pare-